HomeMy WebLinkAboutJUN 20 1974 SPECIAL SESSION OF BEAUMONT CITY COUNCIL
HELD JUNE 20, 1974
Four o 'clock P.M. , City Hall
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
Beaumont, Texas
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TO CONSIDER APPLICATION TO DRILL OIL WELL BY
LUCAS & COMPANY
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APPEARANCES : -
Mayor, Ken Ritter
Councilman, Don S. Cash, Ward No. I
Councilwoman, Vi McGinnis, Ward No, 2
Councilman, Calvin Williams, Mayor Pro Tem.
Councilman, J. Leroy Evans, Ward 4
Mr. Kenneth Wall , Counsel for the City
Mr. Gilbert Adams, Counsel for Petitioner
Petitioner, Mr . Philip Lucas
Dr. C. B. Claypool, for Petitioner
Dr. E. A. Eads, for Petitioner
Mr. Willard J. Hall , for Petitioner
Mr. John Thomas, for Petitioner
Mr. Richard Hopkins, for Petitioner
OPPOSING PETITIONER: 4-
Carl Greig
Mr. and Mrs, Bruce Khoury
Bill Jones
Michael Matheny
Charles Gibbs
Don Streety
Lowell Clark
Tommy Hinote
Bill Youse
Gary Randolph
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(Whereupon, at this time, the Mayor having called the Council Meeting to Order;
the Invocation and the Roll Call being completed, as well as a Special Report
being submitted to the Council by Mrs, Maxine Greenleaf, the Proceedings cones
tinued as follows: )
MAYOR: At this time we will go into the Application of a drilling permit. As
most of you are aware, this is the second tine this has been reviewed by the
Council. However, this is a new permit. This does require Council 's action on
the new permit.
We will hold this as a public hearing. At the end of this hearing the Council
will vote and take official action on the Application.
First, we will hear from the Applicants. After the Applicants have been heard
from, we will listen to anyone who would like to speak for or against this ap-
plication.
We will not require that anyone be sworn. It is up to the Applicants and their
witnesses. It is their prerogative. As far as Council is concerned, we will
listen to anyone and only ask for your name and address for the purpose of the
record and the Minutes of this meeting.
At this time, we recognize Mr. Gilbert Adams, Attorney, I believe who is repre-
senting Lucas & Company, asthe Applicant on this Oil Well Drilling Permit.
June 20, 1974
(Whereupon, at this time, Mir. Adams requested permission for the proceedings to
be reported by the court reporter, which request was granted, the Proceedings
being continued as follows : )
MR. ADAMS: As I just stated, the previous Application was by Texas City Refin-
ery. That Application, as I understand it, was turned down, Then Texas City
Refining Company turned back the leases and cared to go no further with it;
didn't want to get into a controversy with the City or anybody else and they'd
go elsewhere.
Lucas and Company has taken over the leases and made the Application here. And,
-Z"".th that statement, we are ready to proceed with our proof .
But I will point out as we see the law and understand it, this is an Adminis-
trative Proceeding. And it is one that is very important and may be binding,
Therefore, we will abk that our witnesses be sworn and the matter be conducted
Just as though it were in a court room.
if it is a true Administrative Proceeding, then that is the way it ought to be
,,onducted and the record will govern.
And, with that statement, I would like to introduce some basic items which are
important to show that Lucas & Company have the right to proceed.
We have the original leases from the land owners to Dr. Claypool, who is out-
standing and certainly one of the great geologists of the United States.
And he has assigned those leases and they were assigned back to Lucas & Company.
We have the original leases. We offer them, in evidence '. And we will ask that
they be marked as exhibits and that we be permitted to substitute copies, be-
cause, they are, of course, very valuable instruments.
Then our next Exhibit is the Application by Lucas & Company to the Railroad
Commission of Texas to drill this well and the grant by the Railroad Commission
permitting the drilling of the well.
And I will give these to the court reporter to mark them in due course.
I know that the Charter of the City of Beaumont is well known to Council. And
everybody knows that we have a Charter and operate under the Home Rule City.
But when you are proving things, then that 's another matter and you 've got to
get them in evidence.
So, I want to introduce in evidence the Charter of the City of Beaumont. And
I refer to pages one through 62 of the Official Code of the City of Ordinances
and the Charter of the City of Beaumont; and ask if it would be permissible to
withdraw this after a copy has been furnished to the court reporter in lieu of
this volume.
In addition to that, we introduce the Zoning Ordinance prepared by the City,
which we have here, and it will be available.
And then we next introduce copy of the Oil and Gas Well Application and Drilling
Ordinance, Chapter 24 of the City Code, We introduce the Code on that subject.
And this is the copy of that Chapter 24 permitting Permits to be granted.
I presume the City Clerk has -- it is correct that you have the Application
filed by Lucas & Company?
CITY CLERK: Yes, sir, I do.
MR. ADAMS: We would like to introduce the original Application filed by Lucas
& Company for this permit to drill the well together with the payment of the
filing fee of $300. 00, the Bond and the Certificate of Insurance,\ Do you have
those?
CITY CLERK: (Handing)
-2- June 20, 1974
MR. ADAMS: Attached to these papers which I have is the offical receipt of the
City of Beaumont showing Lucas & Company paid the $300. 00 fee, June the 7th, and
filed this Application for Permit together with the insurance certificate show-
ing the requisite amount of insurance coverage as required by the Drilling Per-
mit ordinance; together with the Application for the Permit to Drill the well .
And attached thereto is an exhibit showing the location. And we will have big-
ger exhibits on the board to demonstrate to the Council .
We will want this to stay with the Court Reporter until we can substitute a
copy.
Then we have the bond in accordance with the Drill Permit Ordinance of $25, 000,
which we will introduce here.
That constitutes at this time all the preliminary, and what we consider to be
jurisdictional exhibits necessary for this Council to have actual legal juris-
diction.
Now, if the Council would permit, I would like to call a very distinguished geo-
logist, who will give us some idea about whether this is just a speculative
wild-cat well to be drilled or whether it is something that is a first-class
prime prospect for the production of oil and gas. And that "s Dr. C. B. Claypool.
Doctor, would you take this chair, please.
(Dr. C. B. Claypool called in behalf of the Applicant, testified as follows : )
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. You are Dr. C. B. Claypool?
A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, how long have you been a professional geologist?
A. Since 1929.
Q. Do you have any degrees evidencing study in the field of geology?
A. I have a Ph.D. , University of Illinois, 1933 .
Q. Doctor of Philosophy degree in Geology?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Thereafter you practices where?
A. I practiced -- after the degree?
Q. Yes.
A. I practiced first with the Illinois Geological Survey. And then follow-
ing that the U. S. Geological Survey Topographical Division.
I came to Texas from Illinois in 1934, the fall, and entered into the field of
Geophysics and worked for the independent Exploration Company for a year-and-a-
half. They were situated in Houston,
In February, 1946, 1 became Gulf Coast Division Geologist for the Sun Oil Co.
And I was with them for a period of 11 years, resigning in February, 1947 , to
conduct a private consulting practice.
Q. And since 1947 you have been a private practicing Geologist in the con-
sulting field since 1947 .
A. That is correct.
Q. Actually you have been working in the field of Geology since about 1927 ,
have you not?
-3- June 20, 1974
A. That is correct. I went to the University of Illinois with the thought
of being a Petroleum Geologist.
Q. So, you have been practicing actually about 47 years.
A. That is correct. Yes.
Q. I Know this sometimes gives a man a little feeling of embarrassment, but
we want to try to demonstrate your ability, Doctor, and I will ask you it whe-
ther or not since you have been an independent Geologist in 1947 down to date,
you have been the moving and prime factor in studying Geology and locating what
has turned out to be oil fields or gas fields in this area?
A. That would be correct, yes .
Q. How many oil or gas fields in Jefferson County alone have you been one of
the prime movers, developers and discoverers of?
A. over 20, sir.
Q. over 20.
A. Yes.
Q. As such, of course, that is just Jefferson County.
A. That is correct.
Q. That doesn't include areas out of this county. And you are today a prac-
ticing Geologist Consultant.
A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, have you had occasion in this energy crisis - and by the way is
this energy crisis that we read about, is it a simulated thingl oras a man in
this field, can you tell us whether it's real or simulated?
A. I would prefer to say very definitely and positively it is very read.
Q. An oil reservoir or gas reservoir is like any other reservoir, when you
pump all the oil and gas out, it is then without any hydrocarbons. Is that
correct?
A. Well, essentially so. There might be a secondary recovery on occasion
that we recover additional amounts. But in normal Gulf-coast areas primary
recovery accounts for almost the entirety.
Q. And, therefore, if there is to be sufficient energy to operate this coun-
try, there needs to be more discovery of oil and gas and hydrocarbons as they
call it.
A. I feel it 's very, very necessary,
Q. Now, have you made a study of the proposed Drill site for which Lucas &
Company has made Application, so that you can tell us something about the geo-
logy of that particular location?
A. Yes.
Q. I will give you this pointer if you happen to need it. I might try to
bring this thing up a little closer (Exhibiting large map) . Now, Doctor, this
location is in what we know as H. Williams Abstract 56 League in Jefferson
County, is it not?
A. Yes.
Q. Right there. It's a little square. I see on this map a dark line right
here North of the location and another dark line farther North of the location.
-4- June 20, 1974
A. That is the locale of two significant faults in the area at the horizon of
the first marginal line of sand which is mid-Obligocent in age.
Q. When we speak of a "fault" in order to find this oil and gas, it has to
accumulate some place. And in the oil and gas fields, we speak of traps, do we
not, or maybe a dome like Spindletop.
A. Yes.
Q. But elsewhere sometimes we refer to is as a trap. And that trap is cre
ated when the land or surface is level. And then something occurs and the lower
side breaks off leaving a bank. And then the hydrocarbons drift to and gather
against that bank. And that*s called the trap. Is that correct or not?
A. That is correct; in a generalized way, that's true. A fault is any dis-
continuity of formation where there has been appreciable movement in relation
of one side to the other.
Q. Can you point out on this map -- and by the way who prepared that? Did
you prepare that or was it prepared—
A. The initial work was mine, yes.
Q. That's the geological study that was made.
A. Yes, that's true.
Q. And you say that this black line right here that I 'm pointing to on this
map is a fault line,
A. It' s a fault line at this particular horizon, Bearing in mind that lower
horizons would successfully translate and move,
Q. Have wells been drilled in that particular area which has aided you in
your study to determine where this particular field might be, , . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .in reference to this matter?
A. Very much so. The Normandy Putnam for example,
Q. This is a small amount. Let"s take a larger one.
A. it would be this well right here (indicating) ,
Q. That was called the Normandy Putnam.
A. Normandy Oil Company on the Putnam acreage, yes.
Q. And it was drilled when?
A. Oh, roughly "37 .
Q. And have you studied the geology from that well?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there some other wells drilled?
A. Yes, Two rather significant wells, one by Glenn McCarthy on the Langham
property which is this well right here for example (indicating) . And this one
here on the Weinbaum property. And then we have a number of edge wells. What
we might term edge wells of the West Beaumont Field as outlined.
Q. From the study of the geology of those wells, can you tell that there was
a fault in this area?
-5- June 20, 1974
A. The fault is indicated by the structural positions of these wells in re-
lation to the field proper in relation to other wells'. For example, this large
Smith well to the southwest and wells further southward) so that it appears
that we are dealing with a small down-fallen segment or block which is actually
a portion of the greater West Beaumont feature, which I consider a salt anti-
cline.
When I say salt anticline, we 're dealing with a deep salt, not a salt that prob-
ably will ever be found on account of depth,- but, nevertheless, the appearance
of it indicated that it is salt-motivated.
And it's a structure that proceeds southward for example into the Amelia field,
and northward through what we term as Rosedale, which is this area here; and
thence northeastward into what is known as Cook's Lake area,
It' s a very prominent geological feature and long recognized.
Q. Now, will you tell the Council why this particular well is requested to
be drilled at the particular location?
A. I am very strongly of the opinion that the Normandy Putnam which had very
significant showing in the first marginal line of sand and a drill,sand test at
that point which failed could be catching so to speak; which, in our terminol-
ogy is have oil or gas thereon.
And one or two other sands which appear suspicious on the log itself. Plus the
fact that I feel very confident of this particular fault here; the relation of
these two wells for example, and the down-drop or lower structural position in
realtion to the field itself .
Q. Now, this particular drill site is 3 .66 Acres, You know where it is, of
course.
A. Yes.
Q. And you have designated that as the particular place, . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .where the well ought to be drilled.
A. Yes. It is relatively favorable we will say,
Q. And do you class this as a wild-cat or do you class it as a prime firstr
class prospect for success?
A. I would class it as a prime first-class prospect for success on the order
of 50%.
Q. You say you think it's on a 508-50 basis, That 's pretty high.
A. That is good in our business.
Q. Now, Doctor, I believe you originally took those leases in your name.
A. That's right.
Q. And you had somebody else get them in your name,
A. No. I took them in my name. The Howth Estate itself was brought to me
by a very close friend: a fellow worker, a fellow-geologist, Carl VanWormer.
And dueto our long friendship he came to me essentially first to get my opin-
ion. And I liked the area. Ihave liked the area for quite some time. So, it
was a meeting of the mind so to speak. From there we expanded the lease block.
Q. And took in the leases on the mineral estates of the various owners.
-6- June 20, 1974
A. That is correct.
Q. There are a number of local residents who own minerals under these leases,
are there not?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, the people who are going to finance this drilling operation, are they
Deople from away, afar off in California or New York or where are they from,
Doctor?
A. Well, I am one of them and you know where I live,
Q. You live here in Beaumont.
A. Yes, I 've lived here since the fall of 135.
Q. This will be financed actually by you and by Lucas & Company.
A. Mr. Lucas who is a Beaumont resident or not today he is a Houston resi-
dent. He was born here.
Q. And reared here.
A. Tutored here so to speak,
Q. You all are committing yourselves to large sums of money for this explora-
tion project.
A. At the moment Mr. Lucas and myself are the sole owners of the lease.
MR. ADAMS: I believe that 's all, If Council would have questions, we would
be glad to have the Doctor answer them, All right, Thank you, Doctor. You
may have a seat over there,
MR. WILLIAMS : I have one question, Mr. Attorney,
MR. ADAMS: All right
MR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned your chances of 50--50 as being relatively high in
the oil field business. In relation to what so that I might have a better grasp
to what you mean,
MR. ADAMS: It's my understanding in the slight experience I've had, if you get
one well out of 10 or 20, you 're lucky. What 's the score, Doctor?
DR. CLAYPOOL: Perennial Estimate has been about one out of nine. However, re-
cently, that looks about like one out of 11. We have been very fortunate in our
own operations and we have approximated one out of five.
MR. ADAMS: You can understand a man who has found 21 oil fields in Jefferson
County is a pretty good guesser.
Dr. Eads, would you take the chair, please, sir.
(Dr. E. A. Eads called as a witness in behalf of the Applicant, testified as
follows:
(EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS : )
Q. You are Dr. E. A. Eads.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where do you live, Dr. Eads?
A. 915 East Lavaca, Beaumont, Texas.
-7- June 20, 1974
Q. You are a Doctor of what?
A. Professor of Chemistry. Doctor of Philosophy.
Q. And you have a Doctor's degree in Chemistry?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have been teaching at Lamar University how long?
A. 28 years. It will soon be 28 .
Q. Have you done any Environmental work, Doctor?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you or not a Registered Licensed Environmentalist?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Registered by the State,
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And authorized to practice that field of endeavor.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you made one or many environmental studies?
A. Yes, I've made several.
Q. Did I request that you make an Environmental Study on this drill site in
the H. Williams Survey that is under discussion here today?
A. Yes, sir, you did.
Q. Did you make such Environmental Impact Study?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now, Doctor, subsequent testomony will show. And I think this big map has
on it that this drill site is located right here (indicating) which is 1940 feet
west of Lucas Drive. I mean not Lucas, but Dowling Road. And it comprises a
tract of land of 4.66 Acres, Have you been out there on this ground?
A. Yes, sir, I have.
Q. Would you describe to the Council the type of flora and gatm4, and growth
and trees and shrubs and brush and that sort of thing on this pies of property.
A. Yes, sir. It' s very thick; mostly hardwoodl a brushy area and practi-
cally impenetrable without hacking out some shrubbery and some underbrush. It 's
quite dense.
Q. Now, by measurement we are showing here the location of this well site to
the nearest property line is 300 feet east and to the nearest property line is
300 feet east and to the nearest property line north is 300 feet.
Are you aware that that well is proposed to be located at that juncture right
there on this tract of land which is on the southwest corner of the 3 .66 Acres,
A. Yes.
Q. Are you aware of it?
A. Right.
-8- June 20, 1974
Q. Now, were you given information with reference to the kind of drilling rig
that would be used. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .to drill this well?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you told it was a particular-number rig of a particular company?
A. Yes.
Q. Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7 .
A. Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7, yes, sir.
Q. Were you told where that rig was in actual operation so you could go look
at it?
A. It was nine miles north of Silsbee.
Q. At the time you saw it.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you identified it. Did they have any signs out there, Big Six Drilling
Rig No. 7?
A. Yes. Yes, on the road turnoff as you go into the property there on the
Weaver property.
Q. So that this Council will have an opportunity to evaluate the question of
noise; did you have a noise meter with you or a meter of some kind to monitor
the noise or the sound at certain distances from this rig as it is preceived and
received by the listener?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you measure it at a distance of a 100 feet from the rig?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What kind of rig is this, a steam rig or a diesel rig?
A. A diesel driven rig.
Q. And at 100 feet what was the register of the sound volume?
A. There was no noise above 90 decibels and the average noise about 75 deci-
bels.
Q. No noise from this drilling rig above decibels and generally about 75.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you measure it at 150 or 200 feet?
A. I measured it on down to -- I approximated 300 feet.
Q. At 200 feet what was the decibels?
A. It dropped off to 80,82, 83 decibels. No noise above that. Average down
around 65 to 70 decibels.
Q. 300 feet away from this drilling rig what was the measurement of the sound?
-9- June, 20, 11,9"i4
A. 60 and 65 decibels.
Q. We have talked about 60 and 65 decibels. And we have shown here that this
well location will be 60 feet from the nearest property line. Tell us about
what a decibel is, Doctor.
A. A decibel is the amount of noise that it takes to make an audible sound;
just simply that. It is the amount of pressure it takes to make it in other
lords to where one can hear it, where the average person can hear it.
Q. You made a study on this question of decibels and noise and the perception
of noise by listeners. What is the level of noise on a public street say like
Pearl Street out here?
A. It'll run close to 7570, three way traffic ,
Q. At what distance?
A. 15 meters.
Q. And a meter is about 39 inches.
A. About a yard.
Q. So that would be 15 or 18 yards away.
A. Right off the grass you might say.
Q. Now, how about these people who live on the freeway, these big diesel
trucks that go by there? By the way, what would be the decibels on the freeway?
A. From a large truck operating at 15 meters it it 90 decibels, heavy, heavy
truck.
Q. From what distance?
A. 15 meters.
Q. 15 meters. That would be about 15 or 16 yards; Suppose you were 300-feet
away from that diesel?
A. It drops off rapidly; 10 decibels per 100 ft,
Q. That would come on down then to about 60.
A. About 60. That�s one of the reasons for getting back off the freeway is
the noise. That's one of the reasons.
Q. If one were 300 feet away in an airconditioned home with windows down and
the doors closed, would one be able to hear this particular rig operating on
this location?
A. It would be just about the level of a library.
Q. Library.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I thought they maintained real quiet in libraries where I used to go to
school. How about you all?
A. 35 decibels.
Q. 35 decibels. Then one would have no problem sleeping or living or listen-
ing to your TV or something like that, would they?
A. Shouldn't.
-10- June 20, 1974
Q. All right.
A. The heavy dense growth should muffle any noise that is produced 300 feet
away from heavy, dense undergrowth.
Q. Just the undergrowth alone'
A. Just the undergrowth alone.
Q. Are these motors muffled or not?
A. The best mufflers we can buy have been installed on these. I have the
word of the owner on this.
Q. Now, this isn't just some guess or an opinion of yours. You took a meter
A. Right.
Q. . . . .to measure the sound.
A. Yes.
Q. That's what I told you to do. I wanted facts. I told you I didn 't want
guessing, didn't I?
A. That's right.
Q. Now, how about the smoke coming from it? Were there big clouds of smoke
polluting the air where this rig was operating or not?
A. No, sir, no smoke.
Q. No smoke.
A. No dust; no smoke.
Q. No dust and no smoke. Do you have any reason to believe there would be
any dust or smoke from this drilling rig being located on this 3 .66 Acre tract
of land?
A. I do not.
Q. Operating day and night?
A. Right.
Q. Have you had some experience with living close to where they drilled an
oil well?
A. 250 feet; yes, sir.
Q. 250 feet. Where were you living at the time they drilled this oil well?
A. '915 East Lavaca Street in Beaumont.
Q. That 's right across the street from Lamar University' isn't it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did they drill that well, Doctor?
A. On the Campus.
Q. On the Campus. Was that well drilled right where McDonald Gym is now
located?
-11- June 20, 1974
A. That is approximately the spot.
Q. You were a professor at the University at that time.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how far was that well being drilled from Dr. John Gray's home west of
there, the President's home, I mean where Dr. John Gray actually lived there?
A. About 200 feet; about 150 to 200 feet 1 would judge.
Q. And how far was that well being drilled from the President's home of
Lamar University at the tame?
A. About the same distance.
Q. About the same distance. Now, was there any disturbance of the people ou
there when they drilled that well?
A. Not especially. We didn't have airconditioners.
Q. You didn't have airconditioners.
A. No. We had open windows.
Q. Open windows.
A. That's right. We had attic fans.
Q. You had attic fans.
A. Right.
Q. I bet those attic fans made almost as much noise as the rig, didn't they;
A. That's right.
Q. But anyway they were actually drilling on the University property, where
the McDonald Gym is now or there abouts.
A. Just about.
Q. And the neighbors were they disappointed in what happened out there, Doc-
tor?
A. We hoped they would get oil.
Q. They didn't get oil.
A. They didn't get oil.
Q. And that was the only real disappointment that you all had, wasn't it?
A. True.
Q. And youdidn't have any thick trees or growth or underbrush separating you
all from the rig and you did not have airconditioned homes at that time and ycu
made it all right and lived to testify today.
A. Sure did.
Q. Now, can you tell us something about the decibels of noise produced by C-I=
of these saws that's out there right where this very location is, in that vicin-
ity? There is construction going on out there and they have bull dozers opera-
ting out there, do they not?
A. Yes, sir.
-12- June 20, 1974
Q. And they have saws working.
A. Yes.
Q. What are the decibels turned up by those saws as they hum out there?
A. Sustained noise on those will be around 90 to 95 decibels.
Q. What distance?
A. Within five meters of the saw where one is building a house and sawing
lumber. It's right at the point where it°s annoying,
Q. How about the bulldozers operating out there clearing those roadways and
laying down roads?
A. Well, they are--I would say it is about the same as freeway traffic:
about 90 decibels, something like heavy-truck traffic, similar to that. They
are I believe D-8, D-9. I don't know. I didn't look at the power on those
machines but they have a blade on them using them for earth moving, diesels.
Q. Those pieces of equipment are out there operating.
A. Yes.
Q. And have been for a long time expanding that addition,
A. Right.
Q. And they are clearYig more roads and there are houses being built right
now.
A. Right.
Q. And you went out there and viewed them?
A. I did.
Q. And you took some pictures of the bulldozers out there operating.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now that bulldozer that was operating out there, was it in compliance
with the Environmental law?
A. No, sir.
Q. What was coming from that bulldozer operating out there?
A. It had black smoke emission.
Q. Did you see any smoke coming from this Big Six Drilling Rig No. 7 when
you saw it operating?
A. No sir,
Q. And you have pictures of this bulldozer with the black smoke coming from
it, do you not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How about the decibels from a motorbike as they rev them up and go by
your house; what sort of sound do you get on your porch say or in your house?
A. I judge you would get from about 75 to 90 decibels depending on where
you are located; whether you are riding it or whether you are adjacent to the
machine.
-13- Uune 20, 1974
And it ,. :%: h e some of the larger bikes will go up to a 100 decibels. And
1--he way- they have them muffled they may even go over that. if they donit have
mufflers on those bikes, these large Harley-Davidson would go way over a 100
decibe'ls. And they get to be ear-splitting as you well know.
Q, No-5 , Doctor, did you make some investigation with reference to the weight
of th" s rig as it would be brought in on the streets? Did you get the weights
on th_!s i-_!_g and the. truck?
A ha%ie al, !_ these weights from the public scales given to--as they
and he gave them to me. And I made some calculations
)A,n d e eevery piece of equipment has its weight here in this report. I
a Copy 9�:f this. And we have each machine with each motor and
ot pipe, with each tank, with each-everything as documented here.
Iin,,d a. weight certificate on each one of these as Phillip--
Q. A J r,I.qht Now,
fi,"Ach�, weacrlat per square inch -- well, wait a minute. This rig in on
a i s it not?
A,,
Q A Ir"r"tr'r. frame.
A. It 's on a frame much like a truck.
> C.I.- WI� 11 just drive the thing in there and set up the rig right there
kt)",)toz- frame, `,_-tself
A. r ight.
J�cw,? YClu sa,y it was near Silsbee when you saw it. Could it have gotten
to 11.1hat Tqi"thout going over the highway to get there?
Q Anfj�,, .r.`en I'Lt 's moved, it will be moved over the highway.
A,,
ou]_d J_t be moved into this location without damage to these streets?
A , s "_,%
Q- Gasr,11P question in your mind about that whatsoever?
'"low mucr we 'ght -will this rig and these pieces of equipment as they come
� 1'1,,,�-- on, tt,�cks, hr,:)w -much weight psi will they put on the surface of the
by calculation and depending on the amount of air in the tires
brcught in, between 400 and 1, 000 psi.
If"'hIch according to concrete strength would be 3 , 000 psi, So
-ZI—ty factor built into this thing.
ca.lcij -,ate, this on a load actual strength of 6, 000 lbs. we still have
br-L, II-_tc2L,,.r factor here.
the -breaking- strength of concrete we are still safe by a factor of
to seven units. So we have plenty of strength in the
plenty of strength in the concrete.
-14- June 20, 1974
And this is documented here at the City and the people who test the streets.
From these figures and from the weight of this equipment, it is public evidence
as to the amount of poundage he will have on the streets and the load-bearing
capacity of the street. _ -- -- -------
And I think this is for the Council 's consideration in this document here, too.
They can look it over.
Q. They are welcome to see your Environmental Impact Study.
A. They certainly are.
Q. We will introduce one. Just as well to do it right now, We introduce
Dr. Eads' Environmental Study.
Now, Doctor, after this rig is moved in, you say there will be no damage or harm
to the roads or the streets out there in this Addition in the City of Beaumont
by the moving of it.
A. That's right.
Q. Now, after it is moved in, will there be methods of containing the drilled
mud they call it as the drilling rig goes downs will there be methods to contain
that drilled mud?
A. Yes. All of the muds and all of the materials coming in and used in the
well coming out of the hole and going into the hole will be in tanks. And it
will be well down around all of the surfaces will not be allowed to drain off
into the ditches.
And we will look in on this daily to see that this is carried out as part of
our agreement. And we will oversee this as professionals to see that this is
carried on in a professional--like clean manner' not scattering this material
around and becoming polluted as far as water, air, noise, solid waste, the
whole bit.
Q. I ask you, Doctor, if you would monitor this as Environmental Special-
ist of this area. Do you monitor this operation to see there is no Environ-
mental disturbance with reference to smoke or noise or mud or mud or things
like that?
A. I will.
Q. And, as a Registered Environmentalist, you are obligated to do that. are
you not?
A. Right.
MR. ADAMS: I believe that's all. Thank you. Wait a minute. I would like him
to show these pictures if you don"t mind.
If you will turn off the main lights, I would like for the Council to see about
four pictures.
Q. Doctor, would you explain the pictures as they appear on the screen.
A. This is the entryway off of Stacewood Drive into the property itself
that is the 3.66 Acres of the drilling site. This is the entry off of Stace-
wood Drive. And the principals own this property and they will not tear up
other people's property getting in. This entryway is on their own site.
This is the land, you are looking perpendicular to it, the 60-ft. entryway there.
And these are the houses: one adjacent to the property and the houses across
the street from Stacewood Drive.
(Next picture: ) This is the dense undergrowth that you see in this area. And
walking back about 25 or 30 feet into this property is this thick, dense under-
brush of all varities. And it's very thick, like a jungle. With the color wide
open that's all the color I could get into it.
�1�� Tune 20, 1974
(Next film: ) This is standing looking up at the place. And I was standing try-
ing to see through the dense upper levels of the oak and some pine,
(Next picture: ) This is looking out into the same thing,' You see that this is
very densely populated. And 300 feet back in there it is impossible to see.
You have to clear this,, a little roadway to get into the property to the back
side of this 3 . 66 Acres.
(Next picture: ) And thatls the little black cloud there above the tractor that
is violating Regulation 2, smoke in particular of the Texas Air Control Baord,
Q. How far is that from the location itself?
A. This is north of the location. You are looking directly into the other
side of it, the 3 . 66 Acres.
MR. ADAMS: All right. I believe that "s all. Thank you. Shut it off.
MR. GREIG: Your Honor, to hold the continuity, may we ask Dr. Eads a few ques-
tions relating to the Environmental Agency?
MR. ADAMS: It's all right with us.
MAYOR: All right, sir.
MR. GREIG: My name is Carl Greig. And I live at 6765 Knollwood.
EXAMINATION OF DR. EADS BY M.R. GREIG:
Q. You said the drilling rig where you made the sound measurement the deci-
bel rating at 300 feet was 60 to 65. Is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are familiar, I am sure, with OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration.
A. I am.
Q. For those of you who are not, this is a federal agency which passes re-
gulations regarding to relating to workers * safety. Do you know what the OSHA
regulation is for noise level?
A. I do.
Q. You are the witness. Tell us.
A. O.K. OSHA will allow 90 decibels for eight hours.
Q. Could you extrapolate that to 24 hours?
A. But we are not--in other words, in coming on down, as it gets to 60 deci-
bels and 70 decibels, this is graduated in hours according to OSHA. But in
other words, we are not dealing --
Q. What is it for 60 hours? This will be operating around the clock in
other words as I understand it.
A. 60?
Q. or 60 decibels.
A. For 60 decibels I understnad there is no restriction on 60 decibels.
That's nominal. That is what you would expect from street noise. There is
no restriction on this.
-16- June 20, 1974
Q. I just point out. I don 't have those figures. All I am aware of is the
90-decibel rating. And there is talk of reducing that to 85 for an 8 hr. per-
iod. And these people will be exposed to it 24 hours a day. You talk about
the undergrowth and being indoors but I think we ought to keep that in mind.
A. Let me caution you. Now, 90 decibels is measured at very close to the
rig site itself, at less than. .
Q. My only point is--
A. . . . .a 100 feet.
Q. . . . .that the OSHA regulation is independent of distance. It's just an
average of 90 decibels. And I don't know whether your measurements included
the clanging of drilling pipes or whether it was� -
A. It was the noisiest noise I could hear.
Q. The point is 60 or 65 is below 90, but the 90 is based on eight hours.
And we live out there 24 hours a day.
A. Well, you won't be suffering that though.
Q. 65?
A. 65 is what - we have in this room about 45 to 50,
Q. I thought you said it was 65 at 300 feet.
A. Outside on the street level it 's about 65,
Q. Not too many of us like to live by the side of a street. There is one
other question I have. There are a number of questions related.
There is a well site I guess west of the newest street in Dowlen West. And
there is a pretty fair strip of land maybe a 100 yards wide that extends back
to Stacewood where there are no trees.
And, if you drive along Dowlen Road toward Parkdale Mall, there are a number
of well sites in that area. If you will notice that, there are a number of
dead trees around each of these sates. How can we be sure that this won't
happen here?
A. Well, you have your- -you are bound by every law in the country. And one
of the things that you can do is have the laws enforced that are on the books.
Q. These sites were bound by the same law, were they not?
A. As of that 1965-1972 Act, no. These were bound by certain laws worked
up by the Railroad Commission on the dumping of salt water. A lot of this
damage was done a long time before the present EPA was in effect. Now, acci-
dents do happen.
Q. Yes.
A. But at the peril of the man doing it. He is nearly automatically out of
business. The fine is so severe that he is cautious not to use any indiscreet
method.
At $10, 000. 00 a day or $20, 000. 00 a day, whatever the EPA Administrator would
car to give, it seems to be whatever the traffic needs to bear.
That 's what happens if something like this happens. If a spill occurs, it is
very, very expensive.
MR. GREIG: Thank you.
-17- June 20, 1974
MR. HOPKINS: Your Honor, may I say a word? My name is Richard Hopkins. I live
at 930 Norwood in Dowlen West.
As far as dead trees go, somebody told me that up here at the corner of Madrid
and Stacewood they had counted 20 dead trees and no where near an oil well.
As far as noise goes, that 90 decibels the witness mentioned there on making
the trip. Those trips don"t last long. And that"s if you're right there at the
rig floor, because I've been around too many rigs to know otherwise.
The rig when it is operating just the drilling itself will make fewer decibels
than that.
DR. EADS: Yes. You are speaking for the well, are you not?
MR. HOPKINS: Yes.
DR. EADS: Well, I want to be careful.
MR. HOPKINS: The idea this noise is going to bother anybody is highly over-
rated in my opinion.
DR. EADS: I agree.
MR. HOPKINS: And so I would like the people to understand when you are talking
about 90 decibels right at the rig during the trip, that"s not 24 hours a day.
That is just a few hours at a time. Thank you.
MR. ADAMS: If there are no further questions,, Doctor,, you may have a seat over
there. And I'll --
DR. EADS: Thank you.
MRS. KHOURY: May I ask one question, Mayor Ritter?
My name is Pat Khoury. I live at 845 Stacewood Drive. There is some confusion
in my mind. I thought this was a public hearing for people to come and hear
the evidence and express their opinion.
And, although I am sure we are all going to have a chance to express an opinion,
I would only like to satisfy myself in that because it is a public hearing, we,
as a community, have not brought a lawyer to, in a sense, represent us as
equally and as well as Mr. Adams is representing his case.
I would like to know now-, Does this mean this is our day in court for the be-
ginning and end of Justice? Is this the court decision or is there any recourse
to us after this.
I must say I give Mr. Adams and Lucas & Company a great deal of credit for know-
ing the law, and I will quote "pulling a fast one*, because this was only sup-
posed to be a public hearing.
What I'd like to know is, how do we have our day in court if this is an Execu-
tive Session in which the Council may act?
MAYOR: Well, as I stated, Ma'am, when we opened the meeting, it is a public
hearing. And all that is required as far as the Council is concerned, we will
hear both sides. And we will be here the rest of the night if that's what
it takes.
We will listen to every single person in this room at least once and maybe sev-
eral times.
MRS. KHOURY: But what I don't understand.
MAYOR: And I also said that there is no necessity, as far as the Council is
concerned, for anybody to be sworn in as witnesses.
_18- June 20, 1974
But the Applicants chose to swear their *s in and to conduct this, as you say, as
a court case.
I will refer to our City Attorney as to what your recourse is in our conducting
of the meeting.
MRS. HOURY: This can be a court without us being equally represented'
MAYOR,, That's a legal question and I 'll refer it to the City Attorney.
MR. a- ,,rauid say this, Mr. Mayor; that this is not a court. It is a he
ing before the City Council. As to the right of this lady or anyone else in
room to go to court, I think it would be hest to consult their own Attorney.
I t1hi k that there are laws available to protect people from nuisances, Zoning
violations And these are things that people can enforce. In this case, I
would ss g, est they contact their own Attorney.
MAYORS Well, the point I .rant to make, as far as the conducting of this hear-
ing, on the part of the Council, I don't know what else we can do.
we can't legally prohibit the Applicant from swearing in witnesses or present-
ing expert testimony before the Council . Is that correct, Mr.. Attorney:
MR. BALL.- I don't think that the Council has to permit the swearing of wit-
nesses. But I think that the Applicant certainly would have a right to pre-
sent any facts that he thinks relevant to the matter as well as do the people
opposed to the application.
MAYOR; Ma 'am, all the Council wants to do is have as fair a hearing "� and,
actually and technically I don't know that we are even required to hold a
hearing .before passing on this Application.
It ' s not in the Ordinance to do so. But in all fairness to both sides, we set
the hearing and set up public notice and had it advertised. But I see no other
way that we could be any fairer.
As far as your legal rights and litigation, if you don "t concur with the deci-
sion of the Council, then your recourse is to the courts as is the Applicant 's
recourse to the courts.
MR m 9�'P.L.L That is correct
MR. KHOURYs I'd like to ask Mr. Eads some questions, if it is possible to do
so.
MR. ADAMS: Dr. Eads.
MR. .HCURY: Dr. Eads. I apologize for mispronouncing your name. You stated
that roughly 300 feet from the drill site.
CITE CLERK: We need your name.
MR Kil � RY ® My name is Bruce Khoury. I live at 845 Stacewood Drive. And I am,
adjacent to the accessway to the drill site,
EXAMINATION CE DR. EADS BY MR. KHOURY:
Q. You stated that approximately 300 feet from. the drilling rig when it is
in operation the noise level will be 60 to 65 decibels, is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Not 45; not 36; 65,
A. Street-noise level, yes.
_19- June 20, 1974
Q. And that noise will go on as long as that drilling rig is in operation, is
that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. 24 hours a day. Do. you have any idea how long it takes a drilling rig?
is that five days, three days, one day?
A_, Seven, ten to 12 days.
Q. As many as 12 days?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Greig referred to an area off and behind Stacewood Drive--I am not
sure of the directions--where there were no trees and very little living vege-
tation.
And you testified you thought that well had been drilled before more recent
laws had come to pass. Do you know what caused the death of that vegetation
or the length of time it has been dead?
A. No, sir.
Q. We don't have an expert but I believe most people are familiar with the
fact a salt water gusher, so-called, was hit there. And it was salt water
that did the damage.
Can you guarantee that this same thing will not happen on this drill site?
A. No one can.
Q. You mentioned that the fine for this type of accident, should it happen,
is very severe and has been known to put people out of business.
is that fine so severe that it never happens?
A. No, sir.
Q. You mentioned that the accessway into this drilling site is owned by the
people who are proposing to drill there, and, therefore, no adjacent would be
damaged in obtaining access to the drill site, is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That accessway along with the woods to the particular location where the
drill will be set up is heavily wooded, is it not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That woods will have to be cleared, is that not correct?
A. The roadway will have to be cleared, yes.
Q. You mentioned that chain saws made about 90 decibels. My house is adja-
cent to that accessway. Did you notice it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far from those woods is it?
A. Let's see. Around 75 feet.
Q. It 's about 50 to 75. We measured on 62 depending upon where you cut the
trees down. However, how much noise would I have sitting there from those chain
saws and bulldozers and whatever other heavy equipment is used to clear that
accessway?
-20- June 209
A. No more than you 've already had.
Q. That accessway has not been cleared.
A. But other lands right around there have.
Q. They were not cleared when I purchased my house. I will also comment
that Mr. Randolph, who is here, is on the other side. Can you estimate how
far that accessway is from 855 Stacewood?
A. It is pretty close to the same as yours,
Q. And so he would be exposed to the same noise level.
A. Right.
MR. KHOURY: That's the only questions I have.
MR. ADAMS: Doctor, I might ask you this question: That removal of the trees
so the rig could have a roadway into the site would occur only during daytime
hours, would it not?
A. Yes.
MR. ADAMS: I think that's all . All right. Now, Mr. Willard Hall, please,
MAYOR: Just a minute, Mr. Hall. I think there is one more wanted to ask some
questions on our Environmental part.
MR. JONES: I am Bill Jones, 980 Stacewood Drive.
DR. EADS EXAMINED BY MR. JONES:
Q. Dr. Eads, how many degrees in Environmental Science did you say you have?
A. I have a Ph.D. in Chemistry and a Master "s degree ins chemistry; 25 years '
experience in Water and Air Pollution and ten publications,
Q. You all learn about roads and stuff like that, don 't you;
A. You learn about roads in Engineering. I am in charge of the Engineering
Department, too.
Q. Did I understand you correctly in saying that you would go out and see
that everything was taken care of?
A. I will inspect this every day according to what Mr. Adams has asked me to
do as a Supervisor Environmentalist.
Q. What assurance do we have you will do this?
A. I give you my word.
Q. Thank you. I 'm sure it 's --
A. I live here in this same town.
Q. Tell me this: What are you going to do if it is not conducted correctly?
A. I am going to tell them about it.
Q. Then what?
A. We will see if we can't get it fixed.
Q. What methods are used for that, sir?
-21- June 20, 1974
A. We use --
Q. How do you force their compliance is my question,
A. Well, their compliance will be enforced automatically, because the En-
forcement EPA official is in this town. And the Air and Water people are in
this town. And they will be watching, too.
A. Every day like you?
A. I'm sure. They seem to be everywhere.
Q. Did they shut the fella down that was gushing the smoke out of the D-7
that you took the picture of?
A. I didn't ask him. I didn't report him.
Q. I see. I see. Very interesting.
A. Very interesting.
MR. JONES: I have no more questions.
MR. MATHENY: I have some.
MR. ADAMS : Yes, sir.
MR. MATHENY: My name is Michael Matheny. I live at 740 Randolph Circle.
EXAMINATION OF DR. EADS BY MR. MATHENY:
Q. Dr. Eads, you told us you had some kind of license to be an Environmenta-
list, is that right?
A. Professional Sanitarian, 567 Registration. I can inspect Public Health
activities under this 44-
Q. Is that like dishes in restaurants and places like that? Is that what
we're talking about?
A. No. This is the Environmental phase of this. That 's the Sanitary phase
of the same Act. It "s passed under the same Act; the same as Professional
Engineers.
Q. You are a Chemistry Professor at Lamar by training, is that what you do?
A. Right. I am Director of Environmental Science and Professor of Chemistry.
Q. Are you the same Dr. Eads that originally did studies for Texas Gulf Sul-
phur on Pollution in the air in Lamar Addition in Beaumont, Texas?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you conclude it was polluting anything?
A. No, sir.
Q. You were hired by who?
A. I was working for the County. And I have been working for the area here
since 1940-50 -- 1950.
Q. Were you ever hired by any industry to --
A. I am Consultant for eight.
Q. For eight industries?
-22- June 20, 1974
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever come to the conclusion that any of these industries were
not polluting or causing any harm in the Lamar Addition?
A. We have taken the black smoke out of the skies.
Q. Have you ever come to the conclusion that any of these industries was
harming anything in Lamar Addition?
A. I don't think that's a fair question. You are way off the subject. I am
going to say we are talking about Stacewood.
Q. Well, what I am just trying to establish is --
A. My integrity, if you 're trying to attack my integrity, we 'll have my law-
yer work at that.
Q. No, sir. You are the one who is here. I am just trying to establish your
purpose of being here.
You are not really attempting to tell us that you are a complete expert that's
come out to punch in a computer and come out with something objective. You
were hired to come here and be an advocate, weren't you?
A. I was hired to bring truth to a situation.
Q. Were you hired to be an advocate to get an oil well in this particular
place?
A. In fact, that's exactly what I came for.
Q. And there is no question in your mind that an oil well there is a business
of some kind, is here?
A. I would say so, yes.
Q. It's not a residence, is itr it's not a family residence of any kind, is
it?
A. No. It 's a legitimate activity according to the deeds and records of that
property.
Q. For the purpose of the Council though it is a commercial business of some
king.
A. Yes.
Q. O.K. And any kind of human equipment from the best airplane to the Apollo
space craft or anything else we have that is made by human beings, something can
go wrong with it, can't it, just like the oil well that 's on fire now in the
middle of Galveston Bay.
A. Or the one in New Orleans,
Q. I didn't know that. There is one off New Orleans. And, if there 's one
there, it would be in close proximity to where other people lived.
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. And if the oil well dredged and caught fire to someone 's home, they would
lose their home then, wouldn't they?
A. Possibly.
MR. MATHENY: Thank you.
-23- June 20, 1974
EXAMINATION OF DR. FADS BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. Dr. Eads, the testimony you have given before this Council, is that the
truth?
A. It is.
Q. And, simply because you were employed to make an Environmental Study, did
not cause you to distort the truth.
A. No.
MR. ADAMS : That's all
(Willard J. Hall called as a witness on behalf of the Applicant, testified as
follows: )
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. Mr. Hall.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Give us your name, please, sir.
A. I am Willard J. Hall.
Q. What do you do, Mr. Hall?
A. I am in the Real Estate Brokerage, Real Estate Development and Real Es-
tate Appraisal business here in Beaumont.
Q. And how long have you been so engaged?
A. For 27 years since 1947 .
Q. Give the Council the benefit of some of your experience and training in
this field.
A. I'm a member of the Beaumont Board of Realtors and served as present
Director for a number of years. I have been a State Director. I have completed
Appraisal courses at the University of Houston, Texas Christian University,
Southwest Legal Foundation at SMU in Dallas, the University of Oklahoma.
I'm an approved instructor in vocational education' and for the last 14 years
conducted a course in real estate appraising at Lamar College or Lamar Uni-
versity.
I have lectured on real estate appraising to the Texas Attorney General 's
seminars and on the Real Estate Caravan throughout the State of Texas.
I have been approved as a field appraiser by the federal government, Veterans
Administration, U.S. Internal Revenue Service, Attorney Generals office, Texas
Liquidator, the nine surrounding counties, six school districts; eight or ten
different cities, in Beaumont; many mortgage lenders such as banks, savings
and loans companies, life insurance and institutional lenders,
I have developed five subdivisions within the City of Beaumont and live in one
which I developed, Milner Place, which goes from Howell Street west to the
Hillebrandt Drainage Ditch. And I live on the corner of Belvedere and Howell
Streets.
I have completed over 6, 000 appraisals and studies. And I am associated with
my brother who has completed approximately 4, 000 appraisals and studies. I am
a Special Commissioner under the Texas Veterna 's Land Grant Board. I have been
an Advisor on the South Park Equalization Board for 14 years and served as Chair-
man of the Equalization Board for 14 years of the South Park Independent School
District.
-24- June 20, 1974
Q. Mr. Hall, did I ask you to make a study to determine whether or not the
drilling of an oil well at this location in the H. Williams Survey in Jefferson
County for which Application for Permit has been filed. . . .
A. Yes, sir.
Q. . . . .to determine whether or not the drilling of that well would in any-
way depreciate the value of surrounding property?
A. Yes, sir, you did.
Q. Have you made such a study?
A. Yes, sir, I have.
Q. Would you give us the benefit of your study and your opinion.
A. Well, the first thing I did was to go on the property itself . I took
photographs of the property which I have in my report of the property surround-
ing it.
I went to the City and received the latest map showing the development in and
around the property that is on the east and north side of the drill site.
Q. Would you like to put that up here?
A. Yes. (Exhibiting map) This is an official map of the City of Beaumont,
It is the latest one they had and it shows Stacewood as being developed and
dedicated with the access to this drill site and the drill site itself ,
I have put on this map in and around and through the area that I looked at
where there are known drill sites. And some of them contain wells.-,., Some of
them do not contain wells. But they are available.
There is a drill site. They are in yellow and shown in this area that 's north
of Calder Avenue and west of Thomas Road. I also have a map that-r
Q. How many such drill sites are there?
A. These are the only ones that were known to me. I didn't do any research.
And I see there are three, six, nine, 12, 13 drill sites inside of the developed
area. There are a considerable number of oil wells throughout the northwest
end section which I haven't attempted to show,
I have shown that on a map here that I had in my office (exhibiting another map) ,
This is the map which shows the subject property in green although it does not
show the development up to it, as shown by the City map, I did not have a com,
bination map.
But this shows outlined and circled in red the drill sites and the wells in this
section or that have been in this section.
Now, these wells are dated. And some of them go back into the early days. I
am sure that some of them have been abandoned and plugged up. But these wells
have been in and around the northwest section of Beaumont for that period of
time.
I had this map already in my files. And then I acquired from the City the
latest maps that have been approved but not put on the City map property them-
selves.
And it shows Monterrey Street which is not shown on any map two blocks over from
Stacewood. Brandywine is one block west of Stacewood. And it shows Stacewood'
Chatwood, Norwood Drives as they have been developed like rings on a tree out
toward the west.
At the present time coming from Major Drive down Evangeline Lane, there is
Oaklane apartment. Weaver Drive is being opened toward the east and another
street is being opened to the south.
_25n June 20, 1974
There is an existing oil well and tank shown. And I am pointing to between Oak-
lane and Dowlen West Addition.
However, when I was there, the well is setting there. And the rig is there.
The pump is there but it is being dismantled. And obviously it is either going
to be re-worked or it 's being abandoned. But it has been there obviously a
number of years. The tanks are rusty. But it's in there.
And Brandywine Street, as soon as it is developed on down and being cleared--
there are only two lots on each side that have been opened. And it 's being
opened on down toward the drill site as is Monterrey. I would say that this
area here is practically a 100% built--up, 99% built-up through Stacewood.
There is a considerable amount of building going on for today's building mar-
ket along Brandywine. And there are some starts of houses and houses being
constructed along Monterrey at this present time.
After I located the wells, the question was posed as to whether or not a well
or a drilling site had a diminuting or a damaging or loss in market value ef-
fect on contiguous or adjacent homes.
The next thing I did is I went into my card file which since 1957 we have kept
all sales of all properties that have sold in Jefferson County and we have re-
corded them as to subdivision. And we use them as to our reference as to the
sale prices of these houses. And we keep a continual study of sales prices of
homes.
The first homes I looked of were those that were pretty-well established
homes. For example, there is a well right behind Dr. Draper 's house in Audu-
bon Place. And right behind my brother Phil 's house in Willowick I ran some
sales in there and found that there had been no diminution or loss in value
because of the proximity of that well.
As a matter of fact Dawndale is developing and building some new houses on the
corner of Dowlen Road as it curves and loops around at the present time adja-
cent to Audubon Place.
I ran the records on original sales and resales. And I found no diminutiog
effect.
I then went into Tangledahl. And down on Tangledahl Lane I found houses backed
up to within 150 feet to an oil well which incidently has recently been shut
down. And I found no sales in the past when it was operating that would indi-
cate any diminution in value due to the proximity of that well.
I went back around. And on Howell Drive just south of Regina Howell School
there is a well that lies 150 feet just behind the last house on the left as
you go toward the school.
I ran sales up and down Howell Street. We appraised a lot of those for trans-
ferees from Sun Oil Company. And we found no diminution due to proximity of
the well.
Coming around to Derby Lane there is an oil well-rand I have photographs in my
report. There is an oil well approximately 50 feet behind the back property
line of houses in Block 12 of Thomas Road Addition on Derby Lane.
I have those sales as well as those on the north end of Chevy Chase. I have
sales and re-sales. And I find there has been no diminution as a result of - -
I came on around next to Dan Collie's house, which is a large home on an acre-
and-a-half. There is an oil well and drilling site on Block 6. And I found
no diminution before and after those period of years. And I have the sales
here.
I went down on the end of Edson Drive. There is a well there that is screened
by one row of Pine trees. Right on the end of Edson Drive; you stop your car
and walk around the corner and there it is.
,26•- June 20, 1974
You can't see it from there. But the house on the corner was John Fulbright's
house that re-sold at considerably more than its original price in keeping
with inflation and making allowances for general inflation.
The same is true on down on Lucas Drive. And these are residential houses in
the west end. I did not go beyond itl didn't go up here north, because I
like these older houses are on Folsum Drivel and in Dawndale wouldn't have the
characteristics that these homes have both in value and the fact that this is
a new and rapidly developing subdivision,
After recording and seeing this I felt it would have to bey-I would have to go
further. And I checked with all the taxing authorities in this area to see if
they had ever made a discount or reduced the evaluation on any house due to a
complaintant or from a complaintant who complained that his house was diminu
by the proximity of a drilling site or an oil well.
And I found by talking to all the Tax Assessors-Collectors and assistants, tI
there had never been in the history of all these oil wells, any reduction in
value due to the proximity of a drilling site, or an oil well because it hadr
been reflected in the market place,
I felt that if they felt it was this way--and they are under protests on tax
valuations continuously--that I would go a step further,
I checked with seven or eight of the leading appraisers in this section that
praised approximately 900 of all the houses that are financed : Savings and Lo
or mortgage lenders, to see if they had ever in any of these places diminuted
gave an extraneous economic depreciation to any house because of the proximity
of a drilling site and/or oil well.
And none of the people I discussed and many of them had been in the business
nearly as long as my brother or I, have ever complained they could not if their
memory served the, could not from their own certain knowledge ever deduct it or
detract it or reduced the value of any house due to the proximity of drilling
sites or oil wells.
I then felt, well, if this is true, if this is what they"re telling me: that
there is no diminution in these values, I wanted to go and find out from Mrs.
Hargraves how many Permits had been issued since this Permit Law had been passed
in 1951.
But first I wanted to go back to 20 years and we pushed a little and got her to
go back later to 1951, 23 years.
And in the report that she gave me in the past 23 years there have been 183
drilling applications requests and her records show and reflect none had been
denied or turned down since 1951 .
Q. Except this one.
A. Well, I don't know about that one. I didnit know about this one. You
told me this one had been turned down before, I am just going by what the facts
are by what's on the records.
I would have to conclude that based on actual sales and re-sales of property
which is the test of market value. We can sit and speculate all day. But on
the sale and the re-sale of a house, I have found no sale anywhere within this
west-end section Beaumont, this quadrant, of any house that was diminuted be-
cause it had to take a reduced value because of the proximity of an oil well or
a drilling site.
I will go a step farther, I developed Milner Place. And right on the corner
of Milner Place and Hillebrandt Bayou there to the east on the south side are
three lots. I sold one to Mr. Joe Bob Kinsel, one to Dr; Charles Adkins and
one to Bobby DuBose.
And each of those houses run from $75, 000. 00 to $95, 000.00 in cost. And each
of those houses back up to a drill site. And I would think that--and they knew
it was a drill site and we told them it was a drill site, and explained to them
what a drill site was.
-27- June 20, 1974
And I would think they would have been reluctant to build such a house for their
home, certainly at that amount of money, if they felt that a drill site would
have had any diminuting effect on their home.
Q. Your records actually reflect that many houses have drilled wells within
a 100 feet of them.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that those houses have later been sold and the value and the sale
price was higher than the man who had sold the house paid for it when he bought
it.
A. Yes, sir. But then that "s the case all over. We try to use this incre-
ment due to inflation and replace the cost as a guideline. And it indicates
within that same increment bracket.
Q. Now, you have one map here with red circles, numerous of them. Did you
happen to count. . . .
A. No.
Q. . . . .how many of those red circles--
A. No, I did not.
Q. Can you take, a glance at it and estimate how many of those red circles
there are that indicated oil wells;
A. Oh, probably 75. Of course, this goes east to Lucas Drive and a little
bit beyond up in the upper right-hand corner. It goes in behind Bellas Hess.
And it doesn't show the freeway for this portion of it.
Q. Your testimony pertains not to the entire City of Beaumont but it pertains
to just this particular quadrant and locality,
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The west end.
A. Yes, sir.
MAYOR: Yes, ma'am.
MRS. KHOURY: Could I ask another question?
MAYOR: This gentleman here.
MR. ADAMS: I will hand the Council his report. And you will find in there pic-
tures. Now, will you explain the pictures that you have in your report.
CITIZEN: Mr. Mayor, is it time for me to ask a question?
MAYOR: Let him finish his presentation.
MR. ADAMS: This will give you an idea of the pictures he is talking about. Let
me give it to the other Councilmen.
Now, would you explain the pictures beginning with the first set of them.
A. The first one is looking north, actually a little northwest along Stacewood
Khoury's house, 840 I believe it will show.
And then the area of the 60-ft. access to the drill site and then a house at 860.
don't have the numbers here. But it is shown on the left-hand corner of the
_;ap.
-28- June 20, 1974
The lower photograph shows a picture looking directly into the front of that en-
tranceway.
Then 1 went north and looked back at it. And you can see the 60-ft. entrance
between 845 and 865..
Then I moored on down to Sharon Circle. Sharon Circle is just two lots to the
north of this entrance in the drill site, And it goes back, And you can see
behind the house in the corner, the drill site and the density of it as you
look towards the southwest.
And then I went into Sharon Circle and got a picture between these two houses.
There was the Hinote house as T recall , 1 don"t know the other 's name.
You can look between the houses. And the area would be directly behind that
approximately 300 feet back of that.
Then 1 drove around the area that is not shown on the front of this map to Bran-
dywine and Madrid. There was a photograph that Dr. Eads had. And it showed
the cleared area.
There are only two lots on each side of Brandywine being developed. And directly'
toward the center of the picture, toward the backend is the drill site that
we're talking about.
1 went around Monterrey and this abandoned well 1 got behind it T guess the
pump is still there and got behind it and took a picture looking toward the
east. And that's Monterrey Street in front of the house facing you.
Then 1 went around on Monterrey Street and took a picture looking toward the
west. And you can see the slab of a house being poured right now and the oil
well and the tank behind it. And that's looking west at new construction of
Lot 6. And 1 think that "s lot G. T could be wrong about the lot but there is
an oil well at the rear of the house.
MR. WILLIAMS: What is the approximate distance of the slab from the well, Mr.
Hall?
MR. HALL: Well, there is a street being cl.,eared ,,uld be a 125 -ft. lot.
I would say from where I was standing to th e vveli was about 300 feet to the
oil well maybe not that far from where T"m standing.
Now, from the back of the property line it would probably be 150 feet to the oil
well.
Then, you can't tell this too welly but 1 went across the street to a house un-
der construction. And looking through, you can see through the trees across
Monterrey Drive at the oil well. In fact, that white thing you can see through
the trees is a tank, probably the storage tank for that well.
The next page if you will follow me, you are looking at southwest Howell Street,
the oil well behind that, that "s the last house before you get to Regina Howell
School. And the oil well is approximately 150 feet behind that property line.
You can't find it because the road goes in and then it turns to the right. And
you can't---there's no way x could have gotten a picture of this house and show-
ing the oil well, because that's where it is.
The bottom picture is Derby Lane. And the house on the right is a house that be-
longed to Randy McAlphin. He sold it to Fox and Fox subsequently sold it. And
each time it sold for more money.
And right back 50 feet from the back property line, if you will look right in
the middle of the eave of that light--roofed house to the right of the photo-
graph there is an oil well.
And then 1 got up close on the next picture and took a picture of that house
with the oil well less than 50 feet over behind the fence on Derby Lane.
-29 - June 20, 1974
Then I drove down this is the Fulbright house on the end of Howell . And right
behind that trailer is a single row of trees. You drive or you can just walk
around those trees and down below is the well itself.
This well was not pumping at the time. It is there and I assume it probably is
gonna be shut down.
At the time of these sales this well was here. And if you look at this road
here you can see it goes right on around that little .row of pine trees and just
on the other side is this house. It's just about 150 feet from this house on
the corner of Barton and Edson Drive.
Edson Drive houses here. And then Thomas Road houses back up to these houses.
This is another view of the oil well where you can see the last house on Edson
Drive on the right by looking through it. I was able to get both on that pho-
tograph. And that must be 250 feet from this house to this oil well.
The next page is an active well. I went out to listen to it and took a picture
of it. It"s on Lucas. There's a big 2-story white house across the street from
it. It must be 200 feet from the property line, maybe 250 from the house.
I just went there to observe i
MR. ADAMS: I believe that's all.
MAYOR: One question: On the check that you asked the City Clerk to do for you
and the number of Permits since 1951.
MR. HALL: Yes, sir.
MAYOR: Did you ask her to check for you whether or not said permits had been
denied or not denied?
MR. HALL: Yes, I asked her if there was any evidence. She said that obviously
these had been granted because the money had been received. I mean they had
been issued; the permits had been issued.
We at first wanted to know. They are first supposed to file a Plug permit,
aren't they, a permit to plug? And she mentioned that. But we decided that
that wouldn't be necessary.
CITY CLERK: I gave you a list, Mr. Hall, of permits that have been issued since
1951. To give you a list of applications considered not grantedl I would have
to search the Minutes. And I didn't do that.
MR. HALL: Oh, well, then I don't know of any. Then I 'm in error. I thought
you were giving me the ones -R
CITY CLERK: These are only the Permits that have been issued.
MR. HALL: Then I don't know that there had ever been any denied obviously. I'm
sorry. I thought these were ones that had been applied - Applications that
had been filled in.
CITY CLERK: They were. And Permits were issued on those. Those are records
on wells where the Applicants have been given permission to drill and operate
a well.
MR. HALL: All right.
CITY CLERK: In some of those will be plugging reports,
MR. HALL: Yes.
CITY CLERK: And some of them may still be active.
MR. HALL: Yes. I didn't know that there would be any�Rl thought that you would
have indicated if there was money paid in for a Permit and then the Permit denied.
MR. ADAMS : it would be refunded, wouldn"t it?
CITY CLERK: It would be refunded. But those records-the file that I have would
not reflect that. It would be in the Minutes where the Application would have
to be denied by the City Council. I didn't search the Minutes for that.
MR. HALL: Well, then my report stands corrected in that regard. I don't think
it would have any bearing on my conclusion, the fact that they have or have not
denied any.
I though that you would have indicated --
CITY CLERK: I 'm sorry. I didn't know you wanted that.
MR. HALL: Well, that's all right. You didn't have time to do it anyway,
MR. ADAMS: I have no further questions.
MAYOR: Yes, sir. I believe there was a question of Mr. Hall.
MR. GIBBS: I am Charles Gibbs. I live at 830 Stacewood Drive.
-31- June 20, 1974
MR. HALL: You live right across the streer I think,
MR. GIBBS: I am in the insurance and real estate business and have been for
the last 15 years. I would like to ask a few things here.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. GIBBS:
Q. Mr. Hall, I assume you were paid by the Applicants also.
A. Not yet.
Q. You will be. Do you anticipate getting paid?
A. I do. I do. I intend to tender thee, a bill . I am on overtime now.
Q. Mr. Hall, would you say a commercial area placed in a Residential Zone
would enhance the property values of the surrounding neighborhood?
A. Yes, sir. In many instances, a properly designed commercial area has to
do with conveniences. And convenience centers will enhance the surrounding
area today.
Q. In other words, if Zummo put their commercial establishment in our resi-
dential area, this would enhance--
A. Zummo*s meat packing?
Q. Right. This would enhance -,?
A. I don't think that justifies an answer,
Q. Do you think something such as this that has the same smell or odor or
something placed in the neighborhood?
A. I am not gonna discuss a meat-packing place in this area.
Q. Well, this is a commercial, establishment,,
A. What is?
Q. Both of them,
A. No.
Q. What you are talking about and --
A. No. I am talking about a properly�designed convenience center that would
serve the residents of an area enhances a residential section.
I think there was a time when Woodland Acres failed as a successful development
because they had no convenient stores available to their residents. You had to
drive 10 miles to get a loaf of bread.
Your question I think was and I believe I answered it, if properly designed, it
will enhance a neighborhood for a commercial. Now if you are speaking of Indus-
trial or Zummo Meat Packing I think this is ridiculous.
Q. In relation to the drill site and so forth maybe you should give us a
short resume here on how Spindletop oil field enhanced residential dwellincxg
in that particular area?
A. Well, it does not.
Q. I understand it takes about 20 to 30 years for an oil field to lay waste
to the area around it.
A. I don't know where you got that information.
-32- June 20, 1974
Q. Well, Mobil Oil puts it o your , creej.s.
A. I wouldn*t know anything about that.
Q. Are you familiar with the Lowry Addition in South Park?
A. No, I am not.
Q. This is in close proximity to drill sites and Spindletop Oil Field. This
addition here suffered deterioration and could not fill their lots with houses,
simply because of this heavy industrial , comw,,ero:gal area that was in close
proximity to oil wells and drill sites
Actually I would say an area which I ;ire ,,,j up in ,-A.rollnd South Park out there,
Any how these people out there were con-l',
-Vall_�y Ln, close area with the Spindle-
top oil wells as they came in. And dLr.,,nj t a,ar the trucks which drew the
oil from the area out there, it deter iora bEd the en�tlre -- or obliterated the
entire countryside there,
Later on I worked for Texas Gulf Sulphur there. And we were in close proximity.
I was still living out there.
When the south wind blew, from the oil field across South Park -- the only time
you ever knew there was a. norther in was whenever you didn 't have this smell,
A. Now, you get the paper mill.
Q. Or sometimez z,,jjrno,,
A. I don't.
Nevertheless, no one or no real estate agent in this town can say that an
oil well does not deter ioralze real estate in this town, because, 1, of course,
I sold my house in that end of town.
I am not saying -my house was in a disastor area in South Park whenever I moved
to the west end. But if uiy 'house were in the west end compared to the oil field
to the south here, my ho- se would have appreciated a great deal more than it
appreciated when I lett
A. If you will come and look at this map.
Q. The biggest problem we have in the south end, of course, is the oil fields'
A. You have no pr(,,_f of that.
Q. We are surrounded by oil fields. If any member of the Council, I will go
out there with them any time. And I'll let you do the driving. And I 'll take
you into those areas v&re the oil fields has laid waste.
I 'll tell you what : When 1 was a Texas Gulf Sulphur, we tried to plant grass
on top of what is t nown as Watermelon Hill.
And we couldn't get --- we fertilized the grass seeds. We couldn't get the grass
to grow out there, And this was a 100% fertility grass seed.
I am sure that it will take a while and maybe a blowout or two, to maybe obli-
terate the vegetation etc, in the west end. Now, they can't say that this can"t
be done, because in 1953 at Texas Gulf Sulphur we had a tremendous blowout .
took seven days to oar, it out. And there's nothing around there that will glow.
It was completely obliterated.
Also, I understand there is only a million-dollar Bond put up for any type of
destruction in this area. 'Now a million-dollar bond might have been fine say
10, 15 or 20 years ! ago when a house sold for half what it is selling for now
But our houses are worth more.
-33- June 20, 1,974
A million-dollar bond will maybe cover a few houses in this area. Now, accord-
ing to your Environmentalist in a blowout such as they had in Galveston Bay
there, you can reap between 80 to 100% destruction within a 6000-ft. radius.
In other words, the houses from Dowlen Road in an area of 6,000 feet would al-
most go to Major Drive and would reap between 80 and 100% damage.
Now, according to the damages from the well that blew out yesterday, the windows
from Texas City would rock and some of the windows were broken.
Now, I am sure that this would enhance property values in our area, But I can"t
see how. There's no way.
Now, that -- I am sure whenever you have paid people come before you to do a
job, I am sure they are doing this in the best interests of the people they
represent.
But there must be, out of both of our witnesses here, there must be some things
that they see that would be objectionable.
I have heard nothing but the very best conditions arisings how our real es-
tate would be improved; how we could go to sleep in a library, etc. But I don't
understand really how our real estate values would be increased.
Also, support area: For instance, drill stems or drill pipes are the very
heaviest type iron or pipe that you can produce on American market unless you
go into your heavy, heavy industrial. But your drill stem does not come in
just a couple of pipes.
Whenever they bring this big support-stuff in a 16-wheel truck, for instance,
one lead of drill stem can break a 16-inch block of concrete whenever it
passes over the concrete, I understand the normal street is about anywhere
from six to eight inches.
The drilling equipment here is very likely on balloon tires, But once you hav
your support material passing over your streets such as this.
Not only that, occasionally people park cars an the street during visitation,
etc. How are these 16-wheel trucks going to get -- if four cars are parked at
the entrance, on both sides of the entranceway to this, how are these 16-wheel
support trucks going to go 1'n this area without scraping or tearing up a car
parked on the street.
Granted there are Ordinances where you cannot park overnight there or areas
where you have visitation privileges out there.
Of course, I would hope that theCouncil would take all of these things into con-
sideration also: An air gap where these big support machineries and bull-dozers
would have to go in -there, etc. and clear these areas out in the drilling area.
And, of course, , I feel like we don't have proper representation such as the gen-
tlemen sitting in front of us here. They have their lawyers, etc. , who are
very apt, etc. But 1 feel that the Council here will give the people in our
area at least the proper benefit of the doubt.
MR. ADAMS: Mr. Gibbs, might I ask you a question, sir?
MR. GIBBS: Yes, si.r.
MR. ADAMS: Do you have any particular expertise in environmental studies?
MR. GIBBS: In environmental stud-Ates?
MR. ADAMS: Yes.
MR. GIBBS: Only what I've read. I have --
MR. ADAMS.- Have you studied or are you a licensed Environmentalist or any-
thing like that?
-34- June 20, 1974
MR, GIBBS: No, sir. I have 16 years of experience with Texas Gulf Sulphur. We
took the sulphates from the river bottom and _-
MR. ADAMS: I am just asking you about your expertise. Do you have any kind of
Environmental license or training or anything like that? Just answer "yes" or
"No".
MR. GIBBS: Is this cross examination?
MR. ADAMS: Well, now, you purport to testify.
MR. GIBBS: Ive only had experience in this area but no license, etc.
MR. ADAMS: Are you a resident appraiser pf -same kind, licensed resident ap-
praiser, a senior resident appraiser or something like that?
MR. GIBBS: I can appraise.
MR. ADAMS: I am asking you have you studied and have you the background and
the licenses to practice?
MR. GIBBS: Real estate?
MR. ADAMS: Yes, an appraiser.
MR. GIBBS: Not on the same scope Mr. Hall Has.
MR. ADAMS: That's all.
MR. GIBBS: On the same scope there I have appraised for people who come to me
to make appraisals in my business. I do make appraisals for real estate brokers.
MR. ADAMS: Your only expertise, as I understand it, is that you have a license
to see insurance, is that right?
MR. GIBBS: Well, sometimes that's in doubt.
MR. ADAMS.- For the record --
MAYOR: I believe there's a lady that requested first.
MR. ADAMS: May 1, for the recrod, I want to object and move that his testimony
or statement be excluded. He is Just giving us his gross opinion and is no
expert at all in any field.
MRS. KHOURY: I am not an expert in any field
MAYOR: Just a minute.
MR. WALL: I think, Mr. Mayor, the Council can consider this. I don"t see that
there is any conclusion that the Rules of Evidence apply in a situation such
as this.
MAYOR: Yes, malam. Could we have your name again for the record?
MRS. KHOURY: Yes, Pat Khoury. I just ask a lot of questions.
In Tangledahl and Edson Drive and Regina Howell, we are relatively new to the
area. I do not know which carte first: the oil well or the Zoning thing. I
would like to know from you which came first in those areas, because well I
would just like to know if the people in Tangledahl for instance built their
houses and the oil well was there and pumping and that sort of thing and they
had a choice or if the oil well was there first and the Zoning law was like
changed, so you could put residential areas or if the residential area was
there and they just by-passed it,
-35- -june 2o ,
4
MR. HALL: Well, C -Al wells were there before the development. And the de-
velopers bought the land and paved the streetsl brought all these utilities
in and built houses, some speculative houses. The wells were there at the time.
And then the market came out and saw the house and decided to buy it or not to
buy it.
MRS. KHOURY: Right. But when the people bought the houses had the Zoning or-
dinance been changed or did that land remain residential?
MR. HALL: Yes. I think Zoning was put in --
MR. ADAMS: Forty-six
MR. HALL: Fifty-five and that pre-dates Thomas Road Addition.
MRS. KHOURY: O.K. The other question I want "Co ask is the Section of Dowlen
West on Stacewood Drive `gas that zoned residential before the first oil well
was put in?
MR. HALL: No, I think the oil well that I saw that I have in here was there
when it was a mass of woods.
MRS . KHOURY: Then it was zoned res-4
MR. HALL: No, it was zoned R-1. L �,h`nk the original zoning on all undeveloped
areas was zoned R-1 or R-1 (a) on the ricultural aspect of it.
And it was R-1 from the time -Nrent into effectl everything from Dowlen
Road west.
MRS. e?
KHOURY: And does R-1 mean Y- an have a residence and an oil well side
by sid 1,
MR. HALL: Yes. See, from What 3J. iranerstand you can have a residence. But you
cant' have any other type of use.
MRS. KHOURY: 0. K. Now, the only tkiing I would like to say is my own opinion.
It 's not clear. That is the probe d, If I had a choice, I would not build my
house alongside the oil well, I vrou_'d personally not want an oil well, a Zum-
mo factory, a grocery store or a,1.,,y-thinq in my backyard;
MR. HALL.- I wouldn't eit.her,
MRS. KHOURY: Thank you for answering I my questions.
MR. HALL- It's gonna be 311 feet behind your property line and I don't feel
like it's gonna injure it.
MAYOR: Is it possible that the well she had reference to and the zoning coming
in later, would that technically be a non-conforming use? Maybe that's the
point she was making.
MR. HALL: I don't know. I don't now that Ordinance -- I will have to go
to the City Attorney or somebody that. . . .
MAYOR: If it is though that 's --
MR. HALL: . . . .becuase I don'il-, know how that is affected',' But I do know that
many of these Permits were gran-l-ed In this area after it was zoned R-l (a) .
MRS. HO R` That's the whole po-tritt.,
MR. HALL: Many of them were granted 1.n this area after -- you can look at the
dates -- after this area was zoned R-1, Now, I donit know how this came about.
And I don't know what vehicle or mechanics brought that about.
MAYOR: All right.
-36- June 20, 1974
MR. MATHENY.- My name is Mike Mathany. I still live at 740 Randolph Circle.
Mr. Hall, so that we can get it all straight.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. MATHENY:
Q. You are not telling this Council that in the event they allow a Permit
on this specific spot that the surrounding property is going to be enhanced
A. No. I just said there wasn't any evidence of any diminution.
Q. The phrase you have normally used throughout this hearing is, has there
been a reduction in the fair market value of that specific piece of property,
don't you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then you proceed to find comparable sales of someone else that had a
house in a similar neighborhood with the same square-footage, brick veneer,
2-bedroom, what-not, don't you?
A. That's on a comparison basis. What I was looking for was to see-well, I
wasn't really looking for same classification of house, the semi-elite type of
house. And I went over into areas that I thought had the same classification
that are similar to these areas.
Q. Were you really able to find one single comparable sale where a house
was built and subsequently an oil well was erected?
A. "N'So.
Q. So your testimony, if we 're talking about the Rules of Evidence and in
court, you don't have any comparable sales. . .
A. No.
Q. . . . .to show a reductlon, And that's why we talked about diminution in•
stead of fair market value,
A. We are talking about fair market value, fair market value before or fair
market value after. But now I wasn't able to find in any instances where a
well was drilled within Close prcximity of a home after it was built and the
home as sold before and aft _ But I was able to -find here and they have all
been tagged.
Q. Houses that were built after the -teell was there?
A. I went across the street. And I went down the street. And I found these
houses that had sold and re-sold and got the-in all here,
Sold and resold and I measured the percentage of increase of original sales vs.
the second the second and the third sale. And I went down the line in order to
find if, in the mind of the purctaser, he would have depreciated from extran-
eous reasons, This is called eccnomic depreciation. These values--
Q. I understand what you said,,
MR. ADAMS : Let the witness finish.
MR. HALL- That's all right
Q. (By Mr. Matheny) I und,erstzLnd what you said in brief summary.
A. All right.
Q. But that was reflected in whatever the original price of the house was,
wasn't it?
-37- June 20, 1974
A. Yes.
Q. And that was reflected if it was diminished because there was an oil well
there anyway, wasn't it?
A. No. But it wouldn't have been diminished, because in my investigation
was, in talking to these builders that originally built them, that they had no
more problem in selling a house in the instance of Mr. McAlphin "s house -- I
talked to the builder about that. He sold that and got as much money for that
house as if he had built it three blocks away.
I investigated this because I wanted to find out because I felt like that might
be a very valid question.
Q. But there is no question, you were unable to find a comparable situation.
A. I did find comparable situations.
Q. You were unable to find a comparable situation with the specifics that we
have right here where the house was there and then a well was built later.
A. I don't want to appear argumentative. But here 's the case. Here 's the
facts.
Q. Just answer the question.
A. Mrs. Khoury owns a home. She bought this home. And if this home she has
increases on the basis of 10 to 12 per cent a year at the rate we're going, And
if they put this well back here. And if she wanted to see the house--didn't have
to--and they found somebody to buy it. And, if her house brought eight to 120
more money after the well was there than she paid before the well was there;
then, that' s a comparison, Isn't it, if the house down the street or across the
street brought eight to 12% more providing all other things are equal? That is
the comparison that I was looking for.
And I found sales and re-sales and sales again.
Q. I thought you had already answered this once" And I was just trying to
make it clear. %
A. I did not find any that had :peen sold after a well had been put in, no,
Q. The next question that I have: Is it not recognizable--T don't know whe,
then you but you all brought up the damages.
Isn't it a recognizable measure of damages when you 're testifying in court, for
instance, the close proximity of a proposed gas line reduces the fair market
value of surrounding property because of the legitimate fear of land owners
and prospective purchasers?
A. No, sir,
Q. I beg your pardon.
A. No, sir.
Q. Has that not been thrashed out all the way to the Supreme Court as of
last week?
A. I understand that there is a bulletin in just as there is on drilling
sites : That the VA and the FHA will not make a loan with reference to any
house that is within 300 feet of a drilling site, not an oil well, a drilling
site.
And I think there is a new regulation 'that VA has not sent me that has to do
with high-pressure gas lines. Now, Beaumont operates under high-pressure gas
lines and I don't know where they distinguish this.
I am sure whenever the Bill comes out, it will say whether it's transmission
lines or pressure regulated. I don't really know.
-38- June 20, 1974
Q. Would you say this oil well that is going to be there after it is completed
that is not a residence, that comes within R-1?
A. I don't know this mechanic. I know that they have issued all of these
permits in the R-1 area. But I don't know the mechanics of it.
Q. In other words, you are not telling us as an expert that this is a house
like somebody lives in and comes within the definition of R-1?
A. I am not saying what?
Q. You are not telling us that this well or whatever it might be is going
to be a house, R-1, for a single-family dwelling?
A. No. I am not saying it is a single-family dwelling, no, sir,
But I know that it was set aside as a drilling site and the entrance was set
aside as an entrance to a drilling site when the plat was submitted to the City
for approval as a Residential section.
MR. MATHENY: That's all the questions I will ask you.
MR. ADAMS: Mr. Matheny, where did you say you live?
MR. MATHENY: 740 Randolph Circle.
MR. ADAMS: What lot is that, do you know?
MR. MATHENY: Well, I am gonna show my ignorance. I can point it out for you.
MR. ADAMS: All right. Come right here, please, if you will and point it out.
MR. MATHENY: It is backed right up to this property you have been trying to
change.
MR. ADAMS: You live way over here?
MR. MATHENY: No, sir, I live right here. I know where I live (Mr. Adams and
Mr. Matheny at large map) .
MR. ADAMS: I want the Council to note that MrN' Matheny agrees that he lives
right here in Randolph Circle. And this drill site is 1940 feet from Dowlen
Road. And he is about a 100 feet from Dowlen Road. So he is a good 1800
feet from the drill site. That's all.
MR. MATHENY: I am a human being who knows about the environment, the clean
air, birds and trees and life, the stars and God. And I think that makes me
an expert on environment as much as the man with chemistry who testifies for
manufacturing concerns.
And, as far as being an expert, I am a human being who grew up in Spindletop,
Texas, which is no more. It is gone; no trees= no grass] no nothings no cows
grazing or anything.
And that is what -- this one well will not cause that probably. It probably
won't blow up but there is always the possibility. That's why we have the
Zoning. That's all I have.
MR. STREETY: My name is Don Streety. And I live at 825 Lockwood; I feel that
I need to comment on the well that Mr. Hall has taken pictures of there, cue
one due west on Stacewood.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. STREETY.
Q. Mr. Hall, did you go back on the site and inspect this well?
A. Yes.
-39- ,Tune 20. 1974
Q. What did you find its general condition to be?
A. It is gone. They are taking the -- part of it is being taken down. It is
not in operation.
Q. Did you notice the condition of the oil tanks in that area?
A. Yes'. They are ruptured.
Q. Would you say they are a hazard to children or to the residents?
A. I do. I think they need to be cleaned out.
Q. Did you notice the old pits that we have tried to drain so there wouldn "t
be water standing there.
A. I noticed there was some ditching in there and there is some oil still on
the surface, too.
Q. This well hasn't been in operation for a number of years. Some eight to
10 years ' ago this well with salt pits around it overflowed and killed approxi-
mately ten Acres of trees.
We were able by contacting the Railroad Commission some year-and-a-hald ago to
get the well declared officially abandoned, which has been done.
But we haven't been able to get the operator back in to remove the pump itself
or the tank.
BY MR. ADAMS :
Q. Mr. Streety, just a second.
MR. STREETY: Yes, sir.
(Whereupon, at this time, Mr. Adams examined Mr, Don Streety as follows: )
BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. You all say that salt water got loose and killed the trees.
A. That's my understanding.
Q. That's your understanding.
A. Yes.
Q. Were you in 60-Corporation?
A. That is correct.
Q. And didn"t you all employ me and didn't we sue the company and get a judg-
ment for twenty-five thousand bucks against the pumper?
A. We got the judgment but we never seen the money.
Q. Well, you better talk to the people who comprised that company, because
I got my part of it I'll guarantee you and you all got yours.
A. We got some stock, Mr. Adams.
Q. Aren't you aware that Section 42391 (1) of the City Code which specifically
provides as follows: (Reading)
"A certificate of ownership in fee of all land embraced in the
subdivision of authenticity of the Plat and Dedication including
all properties intended for public use signed and acknowledged
by all owners of any interest in such land and properties" .
Are you aware of that provision of the City Code?
-40- June 20, 1974
A. No, sir, you lost me entirely.
Q. Well, it's in there.
A. I 'm not even sure what you told me when you read that.
Q. And it's not on your Plat. And it 's not on the proposed Plat you pro-
pose to have the City Zoning adopt now.
And you ought to consider that Section 42391 (1) because all of the owners of
any interest in that property have to sign and certify to it.
And you didn't get it done on any of the Plats, did you -- on any of those Plats?
A. I couldn 't answer that.
MR. ADAMS : That ' s all.
MAYOR: Mr. Streety, how many homes are in Dowlen West?
MR. STREETY: In Dowlen West Addition itself I am not sure about the number of
homes. The number of lots developed are 370. There are about, of, probably
another 150 in Sheridan Woods Addition and I think some 16 in what we call
Westgate Estates.
Now, west of Dowlen Road I can tell you there are approximately five hundred
new homes that have been built in the last seven years.
MAYOR: What would you say the average market value is today on those?
A. Average over the whole 500 homes I would imagine would be from thirty-
seven to forty-five thousand dollars. That is taking into consideration the
first homes built there and their value at that time I think was in the low
thirties. I don't know but I think
MR. ADAMS : Mr. Streety.
MR. STREETY: Yes, sir.
MR. ADAMS: Do you
MAYOR: Pardon me. I have another question. Maybe Mr. Hall is more the tax
expert. What would you say the City's revenue would call for that number of
homes Ad Valorem taxes?
MR. HALL: 500 homes at--
MAYOR: What would be the average on those?
MR. HALL: Two hundred and three hundred dollars. I would say they average
about three hundred dollars per home per annum, And 500 would be a million,
five hundred thousand, wouldn"t it--a million and a half--a hundred and fifty
thousand dollars.
MAYOR: A hundred and fifty thousand?
MR. HALL: A hundred and fifty thousand dollars. They would average about
$350. 00 to $400. 00 in taxes . I am talking about the City taxes now, not
school .
MAYOR: What would the tax be to the city if you are familiar with all the pro-
perties that are producing wells .
MR. HALL: I think they get this from a study of the oil in the ground. This
varies considerably with production. And Dr, Claypool can probably answer that
better than I could. It's a considerable amount of money.
-41- June 20, 1.974
DR. CLAYPOOL: It' s appreciable. But I can 't tell you the figures.
MR. HALL: It' s based on reserves, isn't it?
DR. CLAYPOOL: Yes and rate of flow.
MR. HALL: And the rate of the flow. And these wells I don't think are --
MR. ADAMS : I wanted to ask Mr. Streety a question. Mr. Streety, you were a
member of the 60 Corporation. And the 60 Corporation bought this property
originally from the Howth interest, didn't it, the Howth-Wilder interest?
MR. STREETY: A portion of it.
MR. ADAMS : Yes. And this particular tract of land we're talking about was
bought from the Howth-Wilder interest, wasn't it?
MR. STREETY: I believe that's correct.
MR. ADAMS : And they reserved all the oil, gas and other minerals at the time
of conveyance, didn't they?
MR. STREETY: To the best of my knowledge.
MR. ADAMS: And they set aside that particular tract of land for a drill site,
didn't they?
MR. STREETY: This wasn't sold to us. Whether it was officially designated
as a drill site, I am not aware.
MR. ADAMS: But you were aware and you did negotiate with the Executor of the
Wilder Estate with reference to buying a part of this entryway into this tract
of land on Stacewood, didn't you, this 60-foot right-of-way there.
MR. STREETY: We made a swap of some land so that they would have access to this
area, yes.
MR. ADAMS: So that you would have a full lot on either side and there would
be a 60-foot access to this tract of land.
MR. STREETY: Approximately that ' s correct.
MR. ADAMS: And you knew at that time that they reserved that for a drill site.
Didn't they?
MR. STREETY: I knew that was their intention. The only thing I've had to rely
on to protect me is Zoning.
MR. ADAMS: I think that' s all.
MR. EVANS : Mr. Mayor, I would like to make just one comment. I have never sat
through a hearing quite like this. And I am not disturbed about it. I want to
hear from everybody. But I 'm at a loss to who's really running this meeting.
And I think, in all due respect, I think Mr. Adams is one of the finest lawyers
we have in Beaumont. But I really think he shouldn 't cross-examine the people
who are speaking. And I also believe that he should present his case without
interruption.
And then I think that the other side should bring their case. In fact, I don't
know where we are and some members I know have got to go out of town sometime
tomorrow. And I 'm willing to sta'
ty- til in the morning. liut -I want everybody to
be here to vote. And I understand we do have to be here to vote on it.
I am a little bit at a loss and I would like to put the thing in the right per-
spective.
-42- June 20, 1974
MAYOR: Councilman Evans, I thought it would expedite the time to let the people
ask the expert, the so-called expert, witnesses questions, the people who want-
ed to ask questions rather than to bring them back up and duplicate their ap-
pearance before us.
Now, we are gonna get to everyone that wants to make a statement here this even-
ing. And I would hope that Council will remain and we'll vote on the matter.
Now, as to Mr. Adams cross-examining citizens that are speaking here, I would
have to refer again to the City Attorney whether we should permit that or not.
MR. WALL: That's just up to the Council. There are no formal procedures for
this meeting. I think Council should attempt to hear all matters that may be
relevant to it and make its decision based on that.
MAYOR: Whether it is for or against, I don't see that that matters as long
as we hear everyone that wants to make a statement either in behalf or against.
MR. EVANS : Maybe we can lay down some rules.
MAYOR: If you prefer we can limit it to--
MR. EVANS: No.
MAYOR: . . .and finish their presentation here. And then we will go and take up
the rest of the evening on the against. And I am sure we will have enough time
to do that.
MR. EVANS : The only thing I am worried about. . . .
MAYOR: We are going to hear everybody on both sides whether it is mixed and I
think it is mixed anyway even if we tried to separate it. We are going to
have some questions back and forth, so I don't know how we are gonna--
MR. EVANS: Well, you're conducting the meeting, I 'll stay.
MAYOR: Thank you. Yes, sir.
MR. KHOURY: I 'm Bruce Khoury and I still live at 825 Stacewood. However, I
might not after the well is there.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. KHOURY:
Q. You have sold a lot of houses in your business besides doing appraisals,
is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you say when you had two exactly identical homes and one home had
a nicely wooded lot with shrubs on it and the other home was bare earth, that
the house with the trees and the shrubs would have value?
A. Not necessarily would have more value but it might sell quicker.
Q. Well, let's take up the matter of selling quicker. Did your study inves-
tigate the average rate of turnover of a given house under those circumstances
A. No.
Q. . . . .that you studied?
A. No.
Q. So, you don't know for a fact that it didn't take longer to sell those
houses?
A. No. It wouldn't indicate anything that had to do with the oil well. It
would only indicate--
-43- June 20, 1974
I
Q. It would indicate that customers weren't interested in buying a house that
had an oil well behind it at the price asked?
A. As I say it would indicate primarily the market as of the time the house
was placed on it. There are times like, well, today, when we--
Q. Can you--
A. . . . .can sell rapidly and there have been times in the past when--
Q. Have you done a definitive study which proves that fact?
A. Oh, yes, we have studies.
Q. Can you testify on that study?
A. I can take my files and go my multiple listing files that all the houses-
Q. But you cannot testify at this time that the average rate of turnover of
those houses was not increased by the fact there was an oil well behind it.
A. I can testify to the fact it was not, because I know of some at the time
they ,.,Bold and I know what the market conditions were. I know that Bob Damrells
house", for example, sold in a week's time with an oil well behind it and it
didn't make any difference.
Q. Can you testify that that was the case for all of the homes that you took
pictures of?
A. That's the only one that I know. There were other houses—
Q. You had eight single cases there.
A. To answer your question before you ask another one, I think you can get a
better report.
Yes, I do know of the Bob Damrel house that sold within a week after it was
listed and it had an oil well behind it. I do know that Randy McAlphin'-s house
sold. And that house sold. And I do know the circumstances of the market as of
the time.
None of these other houses on this thing that I know of unless I go back and
check the date they were listed and how long it took to sell them, and then
check houses that were listed that same date elsewhere and how long it took
them to sell. Then I could probably with the thousands of sales that I have,
I could probably work out a definitive formula as a measuring stick to esti-
mate this.
Q. But you don't have that available to you now.
A. Only in the case of Bob Damrel 's house.
Q. Would you also say with these two hypothetical, identical homes, if one
was painted, generally well taken care of and the other house had been un-
painted for a number of years, maybe it had a few holes in the plaster and
had little children; the house that was in poor shape would not turn over as
fast as the house--
A. That' s called physical cureable depreciation. Cureable depreciation
is measured by the cost to cure it. Therefore, I would say that house would
sell for as much money subject, to the cost to bring this house up to the con-
dition it was when it didn't have this condition.
Q. But, assuming that it was priced at the same price, it could also take
longer to sell.
A. Oh, I think that would be true.
-44- June 20, 1974
MAYOR: In order to expedite the meeting here, Mr. Adams, how much more do you
have?
MR. ADAMS: I have one short witness, Mr. Thomas, who will testify that he has
examined the titles and the people who signed these leases purporting to be
the owners are the owners of the property.
And that will take about three minutes. And then I will have Mr. Philip Lucas
and probably 10 minutes on him.
John, would you sit here.
JOHN THOMAS called in behalf of the Applicant, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS :
Q. You are Mr. John Thomas.
A. I am.
Q. You are a duly licensed and practicing Attorney in Jefferson County,
Texas.
A. I am.
Q. You were an Attorney for Sun Oil Company for many years.
A. About 39, yes.
Q. Examining land titles and that sort of thing.
A. That was my responsibility: To examine all the titles upon which wells
were drilled.
Q. You have prepared and you actually filed the Application for this Permit
to drill this well.
A. I did.
Q. And have you examined the title to this property under which this well
was drilled to determine the owners and that the owners who signed these leases
are the owners of the minerals?
A. They are.
MR. ADAMS: All right. That's all. Now, Mr. Lucas, will you take the stand,
please.
PHILLIP LUCAS, Applicant herein, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. You are Mr. Phillip Lucas.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are the president I guess of the Lucas Oil Company.
A. I am.
Q. Mr. Lucas, you made Application for a Permit to drill oil on this H. Wil-
liams Survey we have talked about here.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long will it take to drill this well after you get the rig in?
-45- June 20, 1974
A. It'll take about ten days, ten or 12 days.
Q. And the depth is about 8 , 000 feet.
A. 7900, yes, sir.
Q. And you are going to have a moveable rig with diesel motors.
A. Yes, sir®
Q. And to contain the slush and that sort of thing you are going to have
steel tanks.
A. Steel tanks. That's the plan.
Q. And after the work is completed is the place going to be cleaned up and
put in the same shape it was before if it's a failure?
A. If it' s a dry hole, we will restore that surface to as near as practi-
cal to the same shape that it was in.
Q. And, if it is a good well and is productive, will there be a fence around
that area. . . .
A. Oh, yes.
Q. . . . .100-feet square?
A. It' ll be a cyclone fence. And we will probably plant some shrubberies
around the fence, some oleanders or something. And the gate will be kept
locked at all times except when we have our field personnel working in the
area.
Q. While the well is being drilled will there be a guard on the premises. . . .
A. Yes, sir.
Q. . . . .24 hours a day?
A. There will be a guard on the premises.
Q. And you will have an Environmental Specialist check the well every day.
A. I have Dr. Eads to handle that chore for me.
Q. Now, if the well is brought in and it"s successful, for a time it will
flow. And then after a period of time you will have to put it on a pump.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What sort of Pump will you use?
A. It will be a small electric pump. Well, I will say one h.p. maybe two.
I don't know exactly what they use on them.
Q. Will you even be able to hear that pump operate 200 feet from it?
A. No.
Q. It' s practically silent for all practical purposes.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, this 3 . 6 acre site that is there, is a thicket now, is it not?
A. That is correct, yes, sir.
-46- June 20, 1974
Q. If you do get a well back there and it is productive, would you clean
up that site and clear it out, mow it and have it taken care of?
A. Oh, yes, sir, we have to do that. We have to keep those up. It'll be
just grass out there really.
Q. Actually it will be a nice place to be but around the pump unit itself
you will have an iron fence or a cyclone--
A. A cyclone fence, yes, sir.
Q. Could any harm or damage come to anybody who wanted to walk out there
under the trees after you clean up the place and mow it and get it cleared?
A. No, sir. Not that I would know about.
Q. They could go out there and have dinner, or a picnic and play or whatever
they wanted to do.
A. Yes, sir®
Q. Now, you are one of the two local people who are trying to get this Per-
mit and do this development for gas and oil.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you a local boy?
A. Yes, sir, I was born in Beaumont on Liberty Street in 1934 . And I
attended Averill School, Dick Dowling School and Beaumont High School and
Lamar University.
I left Beaumont 34 years after I was born five years ' ago and moved to Houston
which is my present residence.
Q. You have a contract now with the Big Six Drilling Company to drill
this well for you.
A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. And that' s Rig No. 7 .
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That' s the one that Dr. Eads went out and checked.
A. Yes, sir .
MR. ADAMS: I believe that's all.
MAYOR: Maybe I missed it in your presentation there. But do you anticipate
the site having aboveground storage tanks?
A. Yes, sir.
MAYOR: What size?
A. It will probably be two 500-barrell galvanized storage tanks and proba-
bly a separator.
Q. Temporarily or permanently?
A. Well, the tanks would be there as long as the well was there, unless we
could tie into a flowline that 's in the area. And we would still have to put
our tanks at some other location. Normally, it works best right at the well-
head.
-47- June 20, 1974
MR. EVANS: One question I have: Would it be visible? You mentioned a dense
wood or something.
A. I wouldn't think so. Those storage tanks as I said are best located
close to the wellhead which means they would be well back in the woods.
MAYOR: Just a moment. We are gonna conclude Mr. Adam's presentation here in
a moment. And then we will--does that conclude all your people?
MR. ADAMS: That's all the witnesses I have.
MAYOR: All right. Then at this time I think I would like to take, if possi-
ble--well, is there anyone else that would like to speak for that hasn't spoken?
All right. Then I would like to take next and we will get back and hear people
that have spoken on either side. But I would like to give the people that have
not spoken now a chance to make a presentation.
CITIZEN: I have a question for Mr. Lucas.
MAYOR: We will bring Mr. Lucas back if necessary. But I would like to since
the hour is getting late, I would like to take people that have not been heard
previously. O.K. ?
MR. CLARK: Mr. Mayor, I am Lowell Clark, and I live at 860 Stacewood directly
across the street from the lot that is planned on being used as the access
route.
Not being raised in an oil-well or an oil-field community, I am not aware of
the various problems involved with oil field production and equipment. But
there are a few questions that I would like to ask just for my own information.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MR. CLARK:
Q. Do you have plans as to which route you will take for the workers and
equipment coming into the property?
A. Yes, sir?
Q. Would it be down Daisy or Westgate or--
A. I think I could show you on the map a little better.
(Witness and Examiner go to map exhibited to Council)
BY MR. CLARK: For the benefit of the people not looking at the map now the
access route would be down Major to Gladys and down Gladys to Dowlen, down West-
gate to Stacewood and on into the access route from Stacewood.
What shifts or how many workers does it take to man a drilling rig?
A. Well, let me explain this to you. We intend to move that drilling rig
in during daylight hours with police escort. The rig can be moved in in one
day. There will be a night watchman on the location that night.
They will start rigging up the next day and proceed to drilling. There will
be crews around the clock at the location as well as a security guard which I
am going to have to hire.
Q. But how many men does it take to man the crew?
A. It takes four and they work 8-hr. shifts.
Q. What type road do you plan on putting through this access route?
A. Our plans are to hand clear the area of a 60-ft, strip and then put a
road, a one-vehicle road, a board road back to the location.
-48- June 20, 1974
Q. All right. Now, what shifts will these four work? Will they work an
8-hour shift?
A. Yes.
Q. And another four-man crew come on. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .for the next eight hours?
A. Yes.
Q. So, probably four-to-twelve-to-eight to whatever it is.
A. Right.
Q. These people are they brought in by one vehicle or do they drive their
cars in?
A. They will drive their own cars in.
Q. Will they drive their cars back into the drill site. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .with them. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .rather than park them on the street?
A. Oh, yes. They will go right to the location.
Q. Let' s say your well is a producing well of some type.
A. All right.
Q. What type of permanent road would be constructed at that time?
A. One-vehicle shell road.
Q. Well, we sit in the front yard quite often. To me a shell road is not
too attractive to look at across the street.
A. I 've got one at my ranch and I like it.
Q. This is my ranch. If the well is a dry hole, what would be done to that
lot, would it be leveled off?
A. The board road would be taken out and the location would be cleaned up.
And I guess grass would be growing on it. The only thing I have the right to
use it going in. It belongs to the Howth Estate.
Q. The one thing that hasn't been mentioned today. I briefly sat back there
and tried to think how many small children there were in the neighborhood.
I 've got two myself : third grade and below. And no matter how careful we try
to instruct them to be careful in the street, watch for cars, etc . , sometimes
they are a little bit careless.
I would say we have around 20 children from that end of the street from the
third grade below. And most of our neighbors are real careful driving up and
down the street.
It concerns me that we are going to have construction-type workers driving in
and out of the neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, who might not
be quite as careful of the children as we are in our own neighborhood.
-49- June 20, 1974
A. You have that out there right now with the home constructors.
Q. That bothers us also. But we are just about through with construction
on our end of the street.
MR. CLARK: That's all I have. Thank you.
MAYOR: Could I take some other people now that have not spoken before? We
want to make sure that we get to everyone that wants to make a brief state-
ment. Yes, sir.
MR. HINOTE: My name is Tommy Hinote. I live at 6885 Sharon Circle. Now, that
is within the Circle which will be close to the drilling site.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MR. HINOTE:
Q. My question is this--I don't know a lot about the oil industry.
In Dr. Eads ' testimony and I 'm asking you also, Mr. Lucas, we mentioned the
dust factor and other factors. Is there an odor factor? I don't know. That's
why I asked you.
A. No.
Q. No odor factor?
A. None whatsoever.
Q. Also, what is the liability insurance in the event something happens?
What is required or what have you taken out? What is required and then what
have you taken out in the event something does occur in the future?
A. I have taken out what is required of the City here. What are those num-
bers here, Gilbert?
MR. ADAMS: A $25, 000. 00 Bond and the Council will set the liability at not less
than two hundred thousand.
MR. THOMAS: It' s in the insurance certificate filed with the Application.
MR. ADAMS: Well, we have tendered a million dollars in coverage. But the Ord-
inance says it is up to the Council to set it. But that's five times what the
ordinance says.
MR. EVANS: Our Ordinance is out of date. Is that the reason why you made it
five times as great?
MR. ADAMS : We just didn't want to have any question about it.
MR. LUCAS : (Reading from the certificate) Each person, three hundred thousand;
each occurrence, two hundred thousand accident, two hundred thousand, a hundred
thousand each person; three hundred thousand each occurrence a hundred thousand
each occurrence.
MR. ADAMS: You got a million-dollar umbrella on top of that.
MR. LUCAS: Yes. There's a million-dollar umbrella policy on top of that.
MR. HINOTE: Also, if I may ask Mr. Hall a question.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. HINOTE:
Q. Mr. Hall, when you appraised in your travels in our residential area that
we are concerned with, what would you approximate the value of the homes in
this area?
I am talking about the Dowlen West Addition including the homes going in and
out, such as Monterrey.
--50-- June 20, 1974
A. I see some homes, yours among them and there is one on the corner of
Brandywine and Madrid, which is a two-story house with a roof much like the
one I live in --
MAYOR: Excuse me. (Telephone call for citizen in audience)
A. I would say they exceed the average Mr. Streety testified to. I think
they would be above thirty-five to forty. I think they would get probably
forty-eight to five. Are you talking about the area from Stacewood and on up
to sixty I would say.
MR. HINOTE: That' s all I have. Thank you, sir.
MAYOR: Anyone else that hasn't spoken. Let's make sure that everyone gets to
speak that hasn't spoken so far.
All right, Mr. Matheny, I believe there was a lady before you that wanted to
speak a few minutes ago.
MRS. KHOURY: I have another question. And I am not being facetious. I would
really like to know where the grass is going to be mowed that we can have a
picnic on.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MRS. KHOURY:
Q. As you go through the easement are you going to clear out all the thicket?
A. No ma 'am. The 60-ft. easement will be cleared out enough for a single
vehicle to get in all the way down to the well site. The well site is 100-ft
out of the southwest corner of the drill site.
Now, around the well site we have to clear out some trees and things so we can
put what we call a board turnaround there. And this is where the cars turn
around.
And we have a little office out there and that's where the men work. Now, after
the well is completed, all that will be left is a set of valves no bigger than
the stand you are standing and speaking from. And all the rest of the turna-
round area, we will take the boards up and let the grass grow in there and
that' s where it will be kept mowed.
Q. And when you talk about a fence, are you going to fence in around the
drill site or are you going to fence in the whole acreage?
A. No, ma 'am. The only fence we will have will be a fence to keep this en-
closed and a fence around the tank battery.
Q. Nothing to divide this easement from--
A. No.
MRS. KHOURY: O.K. Thank you.
MR. THOMAS : Let me get the easement, that is owned in fee.
MR. LUCAS : Well, the right of way.
MR. THOMAS : That easement is owned in fee.
MR. LUCAS: Right.
MAYOR: Yes, sir.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MR. MATHENY:
Q. You are making Application in the event there is a producing well to put
at least two above-ground storage tanks for oil, is that correct?
-51- June 20, 1974
A. I don't recall making any such Application.
Q. I thought you told us. Maybe Imisunderstood you.
A. That's what I will need.
Q. O. K.
A. Will be two above-ground storage tanks.
Q. O.K. You are telling us there will be two above-ground storage areas
for oil.
A. Storage tanks, yes.
Q. I was under the impression that the City of Beaumont had an Ordinance
that specifically forbids any flamable liquids of any kind to be stored above
ground.
And I would just like to ask the Council : I thought that service stations had
to close down that had these tanks above the ground. And that we passed an
Ordinance in the City of Beaumont that specifically provided that you had to
have storage underground for flamable liquid and that this would be a flamable
liquid.
And that's the last question I am gonna ask.
MR. WALL: I think I can answer that. That is, of course, correct in certain
area of the City. I don't know what the limitations are in this particular
area.
Of course, if there are any tanks put in in violation of this Ordinance would
be in force if it does apply in this area.
MR. LUCAS: Each one of these wells on the map has a storage tank, Mr. Mayor,
each one of these producing wells.
MAYOR: Mr. Matheny, does that answer your question?
MR. MATHENY: It will probably have to be researched.
MR. MAYOR: All right. Yes, sir.
MR. KHOURY: My name is again Bruce Khoury. And I live at 845 Stacewood Drive.
These two tanks concern me partially, too.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MR. KHOURY:
Q. They are tanks that will store essentially crude oil, is that correct?
A. Yes, hopefully.
Q. Are you aware of the fact that roughly six months ' ago Mobil Oil had a
monstrous fire at their tank farm?
A. Here in Beaumont?
Q. Here in Beaumont.
A. I mean these are not that big a tank.
Q. Are they similar tanks as this one?
A. Yes.
Q. Are they storing similar material?
A. I would say, I don't know about Mobil.
-52- June 20, 1974
Q. They are crude oil storage tanks.
A. Correct.
Q. Can you guarantee that there will be no hazard from fire or that fire
will not occur or is that not the reason you are required to carry insurance
to protect against occurrences of that nature as well as of other types?
A. I 'm sorry. You asked about four questions at once and I didn't catch
all of them.
Q. Can you guarantee?
A. No, I cannot guarantee.
Q. Have there been other instances of fires around crude oil storage tanks
to your knowledge?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. I can't question your knowledge. However, we are all aware of fires that
have occurred. There is one burning in Baytown now. There was one last week-
end in the Gulf of Mexico where seven men died.
And a million dollars worth of insurance of any type will not cover that type
of damage nor will it cover the damage to the homes in the area should it oc-
cur.
And, as your Environmentalist testified, the fines that exist, should such a
thing happen, could put you out of business. And, if it did, the citizens
would have no recourse.
Thank you.
MAYOR: Anyone else?
MR. YOUSE: I am Bill Youse, 980 Stacewood Drive. I 've heard a lot of the talk
going on around here, a lot of the pros and a lot of the cons.
But, as I was sitting back, there was just about four questions that I think
we ought to address ourselves to.
First of all the geologist, is that Clayhill?
MR. ADAMS: Claypool.
MR. YOUSE: Excuse me. Dr. Claypool has stated that he is 50-50% sure that
perhaps a well will come in, is that correct?
DR. CLAYPOOL: No.
MR. MOUSE: I am not trying to put words in your mouth.
DR. CLAYPOOL: We are never sure of anything in this business, Mr. Youse. If
there is anything predictable about the oil business, it's the unpredictabil-
ity.
MR. YOUSE: Did you say that
DR. CLAYPOOL: I said I think we have a 50-50 chance. And I 'll stand with
that.
MR. YOUSE: All right. Didn't you also say you had been fortunate in that you
had been right about one out of five as far as your drilling was concerned?
DR. CLAYPOOL: My recent track record we will call it, has been that, yes.
-53- June 20, 1974
You can substantiate it with the record if you wish.
MR. YOUSE: All right. So you are 50-50% sure you will get a well. . .
DR. CLAYPOOL: Well, we have the advantage --
MR. YOUSE: Excuse me, sir. Let me finish my question. You are 50-50% sure
that the well--
DR. CLAYPOOL: I 'm not sure of anything. I am giving it a 50-50 chance.
MR. YOUSE: O.K. A 50-50% chance that you will have a producing well plus the
fact that your track record as you say is good in this industry.
DR. CLAYPOOL: I would say so, yes.
MR. YOUSE: About one out of five per cent.
DR. CLAYPOOL: Recently.
MR. YOUSE: Is that correct?
DR. CLAYPOOL: Yes.
MR. YOUSE: The second thing: Dr. Eads eloquently waxed about how he is going
to enforce this particular -- any violation of environmental control.
Now, I submit to the Council that there is a very real question as to whether
or not he has any control at all. He is in fact hired by the man he is sup-
posed to control.
I think we are all familiar with all that I think on Archibald Cox.
The other factor: Mr. Hall has mentioned, if I understand the testimony which
may not be exactly right. But I believe he said there were no actual speci-
fic sales of property before and after the wells were drilled.
These three questions I submit to you as a voter and tax payer for all of this
area concern all of us greatly; along with the fact that there is a very ques-
tionable situation here as to really how safe this thing is going to be. No
one can really be sure what will happen. That's all.
MAYOR: Yes, sir.
MR. RANDOLPH: I am Gary Randolph. I live at 865 Stacewood. Just one comment
about the lot:
Bruce Khoury and I have tried repeatedly to get help on this lot, the drainage
problem with no such luck. I filled it in myself, and I am wondering if I will
have the same problem.
MR. LUCAS: I would think a road would help that. I have noticed that drain-
age problem out there. We would have to put ditches on the side of that road.
MR. RANDOLPH: Well, we had to do that ourselves.
MR. LUCAS: I• am talking about this would be done with machinery.
MAYOR: Anyone else. Have we heard from everyone that wants to make a presen-
tation here this evening?
MR. KHOURY: I am sorry. I hate to consume more of your time. Again, for the
record, my name is Bruce Khoury and I live at 845 Stacewood.
Something that has been kinda glossed over is the fact that April 23rd of this
year the City Council turned down the earlier Permit that was applied for by
the Texas City Refining Co. essentially to drill at the same identical site in
the same manner.
-54- June 20, 1974
The basis for that refusal to issue a Permit at that time was the fact that the
area is zoned R-1 (a) , Residential, and in the feeling of the Council at that
time and in the feeling of the citizens, this was a commercial enterprise which
should not be allowed in that area.
In addition to that we have missed a substantial question concerning the safety
of such an occupation. in commercial industry, the federal government, the
state government and in many places the local government sets rules and regu-
lations regarding the safety of the operation and of the industry.
I 'm an Engineer and I 'm eminently familiar with those regulations. They are
the best that can be formulated at this time with the amount of knowledge that
we now have.
However, those regulations do not preclude an accident. They do not stop ac-
cidents. They reduce the number. An Accident in this area has the potential
of wiping out entire families.
Because of the safety hazards and under the existing Ordinance, we feel that
the City Council should refuse this Application.
I might also submit for the City Council an article from the Beaumont Journal
dated 6-17-74 describing the accident that occurred in New Orleans this year,
last week which resulted in lives lost of four men, if you would like that.
MAYOR: Thank you.
MR. KHOURY: Would you pass that up, please.
MAYOR: Anyone else? Just out of curiosity, Mr. Adams, I would like to know
those who are assembled who have not made a presentation. Let me see a show
of hands of those who support the application. (8 hands shown)
MR. ADAMS: Incidentally, all of those are land owners and oil men.
MAYOR: I don' t know whether it is fair to ask this or not, but I assume they
all have a financial interest in the Application.
MR. ADAMS: Well--
CITIZEN: Ask them how many lives in Dowlen West?
MAYOR: All right. There 's one in Dowlen West.
Now, how many are here that oppose the Application? (Large number of hands)
MAYOR: Mr. Adams?
MR. ADAMS: I would like to sum up in about three minutes. The first is:
They speak of danger. There is nothing more dangerous than these trains com-
ing out of these big plants filled with all kinds of high explosives and tra-
veling down the highway and moving from Beaumont to Houston right in between
those fine additions.
And, if they were ever de-railed such as on Railroad Ave. , we would have rail-
road going up and down like a rollercoaster.
And explode, it's much more dangerous than any one little old oil well out
here 300 feet from any nearest property line.
Furthermore, the Zoning Ordinance never mentions the drilling Ordinance. And
the Drilling Ordinance never mentions the Zoning Ordinance. They are two in-
dependent Ordinances. The Drilling Ordinance was enacted for the purpose of
permitting drilling any place in the City of Beaumont.
And, if it was going to be zoned, I would have though that the Zoning Commis-
sion and the Zoning Ordinance would say something about it. There is no con-
-55- June 20, 1974
flict between the two, because if you will notice when the Zoning Ordinance
was adopted, it was recognized by those preparing the Zoning Ordinance that
the Zoning Ordinance was adopted under the Statutes of the State of Texas.
And on this first page it says : State law references--for authority of city
to zone, see Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes, Arts. 1011a through 1011j .
When they came to adopt them, the City on the second page adopted Articles
1011a to 1011j .
Now, 1011] says that if there is another Ordinance that has greater or higher
standards than those prepared for the Zoning, then those higher standards
will prevail; and if other ordinances provide for lower standards then the
Zoning Ordinance will prevail.
But in this case these two Ordinances are separate and apart independent of
each other and never mention one another.
Aside from that, that Article 1011] was not included and was not adopted by
the City when it passed the Zoning Ordinance. But assuming that it is to be
considered, this Statute 1011j , this Zoning Ordinances provides for much higher
qualifications--I mean the Drilling Ordinance, much higher requirements than
the Zoning.
The fee is $300. 00 and you can't drill a well within a certain distance. You
have to have a bond. You have to have insurance, public liability insurance
coverage. All of these things are much higher requirements than the Zoning
Ordinance.
I think the Drill Ordinance is independent from the Zone Ordinance applied to
the whole City. And as evidence there has been 183 Permits for Wells.
And we have made some study of it and we haven't found any except the previous
one turned down. And as opposed from these various maps scores and scores of
these wells--everyone of these red circles is a well. Now, these owners of
the minerals who reserved them when they sold off the property reserved the
right to develop them. And they certainly have substantial right to develop
those minerals.
And in this energy crises when the only way we can relieve it is for there to
be more drilling development and we have a prime prospect--an excellent pros-
pect.
It is not going to hurt anybody. The noise is going to be minimal. The pol-
lution will be none. It will be 300 feet from the nearest property line.
It will be covered by substantial insurance and substantial bonds. It will
be bird-dogged by a registered, highly respected and capable Environmentalist,
Dr. Eads, who is a professor at Lamar University.
Then too these gentlemen who are making this Application and who are investing
very large sums of money for this development are local people.
You will notice that when Texas City Refining's Application was turned down,
they quit the deal. And you couldn't find somebody from outside to come in.
It had to be local people and we have got local people laying on the line up
to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to help solve the energy situation.
It will put higher tax values on the City's Tax Rolls, the County and the State.
Every precaution is being taken and it is only fair that these owners, taking
all of these precautions and taking all of these security measures, be given
a fair opportunity to lose their money. It may be lost. There is no cinch
in this by any means. If they do, why then, it' s over with. If they win, and
they hit a oil or gas field, then there will be substantial revenue benefit-
ting the entire City, County and State.
-56- June 20, 1974
And we submit that the Application should be granted.
MAYOR: Do any of the members of Council have any questions of any of the peo-
ple who have spoken this evening? I would like to -- I can't see our Attorney
for the map and I would feel much better if I could hold the hearing with all
the Attorneys present if I could have them.
Mr. Wall, for the purpose of the record here would you state for us -- Mr.
Adams corrected my opening statement the fact that this is a new drilling per-
mit by stating that it is being made by somewhat different Applicants than
previously made. But it is a fact it is the same drill site and same type of
request that came before the Council previously.
Council at that time voted on a vote of four with one abstention to turn down
that request. Mr. Attorney, would you refresh our memory as to how that mo-
tion was made that the Council voted on at that time.
MR. WALL: Mr. Mayor, I don't recall which Councilman made the motion. The
motion was made to deny the Request for Permit and it was carried four votes
to deny and one abstention. I don't recall who made the motion.
MAYOR: I made the motion. It wasn't one of the Councilmen. I wanted to
collaborate my memory. I believe it was on the basis of it looked to us to
be a conflict between R-1 which permits only three usages.
MR. WALL: Yes. I think that was stated in the Motion that Council was bas-
ing its decision on the fact that the property was zoned R-1.
MAYOR: That is the Motion that Council voted on, is that correct?
CITY CLERK: That's right.
MAYOR: Since that interim period, Mr. Attorney, have you come across any
legal information or legal opinions that you have not previously given prior
to that?
MR. WALL: No, sir. We discussed my view of the law at the time of the first
application. My opinion has not changed.
MAYOR: All right. And since the Applicant after refusal of the Permit has
not taken the City to court on that, there has been no Court Opinion or ad-
judication on what appeared in the opinion of some members of the Council
to be some conflict of the two Ordinances.
MR. WALL: No, there has been no litigation on this at all.
MAYOR: Legally, we are actually in the same position at the time of the
first application.
MR. WALL: In my opinion, yes.
MAYOR: Do any of the Councilmen -- I believe Councilman Evans --
COUNCILMAN EVANS: The only question I have and this disturbs me. Since I
been on the Council we have passed several Drilling Ordinances. I had no
opinion. I thought if anybody came in and they met requirements, that we
had no choice except to issue an ordinance.
This disturbs me that some people who you might say because of not knowing or
my ignorance or whatever you want to call it can sit and have oil wells dril-
led in their backyards and other people can't.
Now, the only thing that gets me about the thing is, it seems that we need to
have something fair. If our Ordinance is wrong, then I think it's up to the
City Council to change it.
MAYOR: I believe the Legal Department should be in charge of this.
-57- June 20, 1974
MR. EVANS: This is something that should be done. I am very much in sympathy
with people who own homes. And I don't agree that the man who has a home
next to a oil well that the value won't be hurt some. I won't say that it
will be great. But I say that his value will be hurt no matter what.
But the thing that worries me. I think we have to follow some sort of line
and Mr. Adams has made a good point. Everyone of us here used petroleum to
get down here and we will do the same thing going home.
And I work at a refinery. So I realize that there is a shortage and all this.
I don't want us to be like England or California, get ourselves in such a
prediction. And yet I don't feel that Texas should be the one to suffer may-
be all the environmental problems to keep the rest of the country going, who
won't even allow refineries or this sort of thing to come into the area.
All of this is very improtant to us, because without it, we can 't move. The
question to me is I would really like to see something definite. And, if it
is failed, who in case a lawsuit is brought will it be brought against? Will
it be brought against the City or against him?
MR. WALL: I would assume that if the Council does not grant the Permit that
the Applicants would file suit against the City. I think Mr. Adams would be
better able to answer that to your satisfaction.
COUNCILMAN WILLIAMS ; It seems to me it is a legal question as we have dis-
cussed because it seems to me the Applicants have met what is required of
them in my judgment. It seems to me rather superfluous that the Council
should have to act on this Permit from the discussion I've heard this even-
ing.
My question is, Mr. Attorney, the Charter requires that the Council does
pass.
MR. WALL: The Drilling Ordinance provides no well may be drilled within the
City unless a Permit is received from the City Council. That, of course,
can be amended at any by the Council unlike the Charter. The Ordinance
can be amended.
MAYOR: I have a question, Mr. Hall. In the west end of Beaumont what is
considered the undeveloped part of potential for residential development, how
many acres would you say is under lease presently to oil companies?
MR. HALL: Leases for oil wells?
MAYOR: Right.
MR. HALL: Over a thousand acres.
MAYOR: Isn't there one ten thousand acre tract out there in 1-R or something?
MR. HALL: I think so but I 'm not sure. I would think that would be beyond
Major Drive over to Keith Road, yes, I guess so all the way up to maybe 105.
MAYOR: Right.
MR. HALL: I would think in terms of oil wells on those maps there's over a
thousand acres. That is just between Dowlen Road and Major Drive where there
are oil wells. Yes, there would be probably ten thousand if you go all the
way out, out to the city limits out there.
MAYOR: But much of that is totally undeveloped area.
MR. HALL: Yes.
MAYOR: The ten thousand Acres that I mentioned is in an area that is totally
undeveloped at this time.
_58' June 20, 1974
MR. HALL: Yes, sir, primarily undeveloped.
MR. WILLIAMS: One other question: Mr. Adams, you questioned Mr, Streety
along the line of reserving the mineral rights to the property that was
bought and later developed.
Could you summarize the thrust of your questions at this time, his knowledge
of the preservation of the mineral rights and subsequent development?
MR. ADAMS: Mr. Don Streety was a member of 60 Corporation, a stockholder
in it; Gaston Wilder was. The Howth Estate and the 60 Corporation bought the
property from the Howth Estate and some other people. And the Howth Estate
reserved all of the oil, gas and other minerals in, on, and under that land
with the right to go in and develop and recover.
And then when they sold off this tract of land they set aside this -- it was
actually four Acres at the time they set it aside down here -- it was four
acres that they set aside for a drill site to drill for anything that might
develop in the future.
And that has been some many years ' ago. Everybody who has bought a house
out there or a piece of land out there knows. It shows up in their titles
CITIZENS: No. No.
MR. ADAMS: . . . .and their insurance. . . .
CITIZENS: No.
MR. ADAMS: . . . .title policies.
CITIZENS: No. No.
MR. WALL: It's of record in Jefferson County.
MR. ADAMS: There's no question about that. The filed instruments will show
it. And every Title Policy issued on those houses -- everybody who bought a
house got a Title Policy and that Title Policy excludes all of the oil, gas
and other minerals. It 's right on the face of the policy.
Mr. Streety knew all the oil, gas and other minerals were reserved. And that
site was set aside on the map. It's very difficult to understand how any-
one wouldn't be aware of it. Now people say they are not but when the very
title papers which you hold say on the face of theTr, all oil, gas and other
minerals are excluded, then one needs only to read it.
MR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned some part about the exchange of property in order
to reserve the right-of-way into the subject property, of which Mr. Streety
was also knowledgable and also involved in that transaction. Could you sum-
marize that for me again.
MR. ADAMS : I think I can show it to you clearly over here on the map. Can
you see this?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR. ADAMS: It was a 4-Acre square block like this (indicating) . When Mr.
Streety wanted to develop this much of the property, he traded with the Howth
Estate. You see that much of the property was in this unit. In order to
have a full lot, he had to get this much additional land to make this lot a
full lot. He had to get this much additional land there to make this a full
lot.
So he traded this fornt part right here for this part and this part to leave
a 60-ft. right-of-way into this drill site.
-59- June 20, 1974
MR. WILLIAMS: It is a matter of record that that transaction was made for
that particular purpose.
MR. ADAMS : I handled it. I represented the Howth-Wilder Estate. I handled
it and viewed the papers and am aware of it.
MR. LUCAS: I have a detailed map of that, Gilbert. It's in my brief case.
MR. ADAMS: If they want any further discussion, I will be glad to get it.
That's why it' s not four. Now, it's just 3 .66 Acres. Mr. Streety was
traded a little piece of this property here and a little tip of that lot
there so that he would have two lots on either side. Then he gave the little
front part a short distance to give a complete entry way. Incidentally,
most of the members are in this room.
MR. RANDOLPH: My name is Gary Randolph. As I say I live at 865 Stacewood.
I was under the impression or the understanding that this land would be tied
up for 50 years. I think my neighbors were, too. I feel very much that I
was deceived by my builders and several others that I talked to in the area
assured me of this. That' s all I have to say.
MR. WILLIAMS: May I ask you, sir, who was your builder?
MR. RANDOLPH: Tom Bailey. And I heard this from my neighbors that had talked
to their builders, too. And I am sure they will be happy to tell you, too.
MAYOR: I believe there' s one other gentleman.
MR. HINOTE: I can back up Dr. Randolph's statement. I brought out this
point the last time Council met. At the time I bought the property to put
my house on, I was told this land would not be developed for 50 years; it was
to be left in its natural state. If I was deceived, that 's my own fault.
This is what I was told when I signed the papers when I bought the house and
when I built the house which is 6885 Sharon Circle.
MR. ADAMS: You were not told this by the owners of this land, were you?
MR. HINOTE: No. By the way, my builder was Wallace Watson.
MR. STREETY: I would like to clear the record on this. None of these state-
ments can be attributed to me. I was the developer of this land but where
these statements came from I have no idea.
MAYOR: Does Council have any questions?
MR. CASH: I would like to direct a question to Mr. Wall. Surely there has
been a case similar to this in the past. Do you have any record of what ac-
tion was taken by the courts?
MR. WALL: The question we discussed when the Permit was originally applied
for has not been decided by the Texas . Courts in my opinion. I advised the
Council what the outcome would be based on similar cases, what I think the
outcome would be.
MAYOR: Does anyone else have any other questions?
Mr. City Attorney, have we satisfied all the requirements here before the
Council acts on this Application?
MR. WALL: I think you've done more than that, Mayor.
MAYOR: Does anyone else have anything they want to say before the Council
does take action?
I want to say that I appreciate everyone's attendance through a rather lengthy
meeting here this afternoon. I apologize for the lack of airconditioning in
the room. But I do appreciate your attention and bearing with us through
this presentation.
-60- June 20, 1974
I hope that both sides feel like the Council has given them equal time and
opportunity to present to the Council their sides and their presentation.
So unless the members of the Council have any other questions or statements
they would like to make we are ready for -- are there any?
I will ask at this time then, is there a Motion on this Application?
MR. CASH: Mr. Mayor, I will go ahead and make a motion to bring it to a head.
I will say this: I would like to make both sides happy but it won't be pos-
sible, because I think we need the drilling of oil for the future of our na-
tion. Yet at this time I would like to protect what I feel to be the rights
of the citizens.
But really after listening to the evidence that has been presented, it is my
conclusion that the well can be drilled without any serious problems to the
neighborhood.
And I am going to make a Motion that the request be granted.
MAYOR: A Motion is made to grant the Applicant's Request. Is there a second
to that motion?
MR. WILLIAMS: Second.
MAYOR: The Motion then is made and seconded. Any other discussion on this
motion.
If not, then, are you ready for the Question?
MR. WILLIAMS : Question.
MAYOR: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. WILLIAMS, MR. CASH, and MR. EVANS: Aye.
MAYOR: All opposed.
MAYOR and COUNCILWOMAN McGINNIS : Aye.
MAYOR: The Motion passes and the Permit is granted. I want to thank every-
one for being here. . . .
MR. WALL: I think in view of that, the Council needs to set the amount of
bond and liability insurance. The applicants have tendered liability insur-
ance in the amount of $1, 000, 000. I think that is probably sufficient, as
is the $25, 000 bond to secure any damages to the streets.
MAYOR: Does that need to be done at this time?
MR. WALL: Yes. . . .I would recommend $1, 000, 000 liability insurance and the
$25, 000 bond.
COUNCILMAN WILLIAMS made a motion to set $1, 000,000 liability insurance and
$25, 000 bond; the motion was seconded by COUNCILWOMAN McGINNIS .
Question: Ayes: All Nayes: None
-000-
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned.
-000-
I, Myrtle Corgey, City Clerk of the City of Beaumont, Texas, certify that the
above is a true of the Minutes of the special session held June 20, 1974.
Myrtle Corgey
City Clerk
-61- June 20, 1974
NO CITY COUNCIL MEETING TODAY
JUNE 25, 1974
i
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PAGE
1
I
2
z
j 3
4 SPECIAL SESSION OF BEA UST CITY COUNCIL
5 HELD JUNE 20, 1974
6 Four o'clock P.N. , City Hall
7 CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
s Beaumont, Texas
9
10
11 TO CONSIDER APPLICATION TO DRILL OIL WELL
12 BY LUCAS & COmpANY
13
14 ---000---
15
16
17
is
i
19
20
21
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22
23
24
.� 25
i
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 2
A PPEARANCES
2 Mayor, Ken Ritter
3
Councilman, Don S. Cash, Ward No. 1
4 Councilwoman, Vi McGinnis, Ward No. 2
5 Councilman, Calvin Williams, Mayor Pro Tenn
6 Councilman, J. Leroy Evans, Ward 4
Ir. Kenneth Wall
7 M counsel for the City
8 Mr. Gilbert Adams, counsel for Petitioner
9
Petitioner, Mr. Philip Lucas
10 Dr. C. B. Claypool, for Petitioner
11 Dr. E. A. Eats, for Petitioner
12 Mr. Willard J. Hall, for Petitioner
13 Mr. John Thomas, for Petitioner
14 Mr. Richard Hopkins, for Petitioner
15
16 OPPOSING PETITIONER:-
17 Carl Greig
18 Mr. and Mrs. Bruce Khoury
19 Bill Jones
20 Michael Matheny
21 Charles Gibbs
22 Don Streety
23 Lowell Clark
24 Tommy Hinote
25 Bill Mouse
Gary Randolph
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 3
1 (Whereupon, at this time, the Mayor having
2 called the Council Meeting to Order* the Invocation and
3 the Roll Call being completed, as well as a Special Re-
4 port being submitted to the Council by Mrs. Maxine Green-
5
leaf, the Proceedings continued as follows * )
6 MAYOR, At this time we will go into the Ap-
7 Plication of a drilling permit. As most of you are aware,
8 this is the second time this has been reviewed by the
9 Council. However, this Is a new permit. This does require
10 Council's action on the new permit.
We will hold this as a public hearing.
11 At the
12 end of this hearing the Council will vote and take official
13
action on the Application.
14 First, we will hear from the Applicants .
After
15
the Applicants have been heard from, we will listen to any-
16
one who would like to speak for or against this Application.
17 We will not require that anyone be sworn. It
18
is up to the Applicants and their witnesses. It is their
19 prerogative . As far as Council is concerned, we will lis-
20 ten to anyone and only ask for your name and address for the
21 purpose of the record and the Minutes of this meeting.
22 At this time, we recognize Mr. Gilbert Adams,
23 Attorney, I believe who is representing Lucas & Company, as
24 the Applicant on this Oil Well Drilling Permit.
25
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
it
PAGE 4
1 1 (Whereupon, at this time, Mr. Adams requested
permission for the proceedings to be reported by the court
3
reporter, which request was granted, the Proceedings being
4 continued as follows: )
5 MR, ADAMS : As I just stated, the previous
6 Application was by Texas City Refinery. That Application,
7 as I understand it, was turned down. Then Texas City Re-
8 fining Company turned back the leases and cared to go no
9 further with its didn't want to get into a controversy
10 with the City or anybody else and they'd go elsewhere .
11 Lucas and Company has taken over the leases
12 and made the Application here . And, with that statement,
13 we are ready to proceed with our proof.
14 But I will point out as we see the law and
15
understand it, this is an Administrative Proceeding., And
16
it is one that is very important and may be binding. There
17
fore, we will ask that our witnesses be sworn and the mat-
18
ter be conducted lust as though it were in a court room.
19 If it is a true Administrative Proceeding,
20
then that is the way it ought to be conducted and the recorck
21
will govern.
22 And, with that statement, I would like to
23
introduce some basic items which are important to show that
24
Lucas & Company have the right to proceed.
25
We have the original leases from the land
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
li
PAGE 5
1 Owners to Dr. Claypool, who is outstanding and certainly
2 one of the great geologists of the United States.
3 And he has assigned those leases and they were
4
assigned back to Lucas & Company. We have the original
5 leases . We offer themin evidence. And we will ask that
6 they be marked as exhibits and that we be permitted to
7
substitute copies, because, they are, of course, very val-
8 uable Instruments. (Applicant's Exhibits #1 attached)
9
Then our next Exhibit is the Application by
10 Lucas & Company to the Railroad Commission of Texas to
11
drill this well and the grant by the Railroad Commission
12 permitting the drilling of the well. (Applicants #2 attached)
13
And I will give these to the court reporter
14 to mark them in due course.
li
15 1 know that the Charter of the City of
16 Beaumont is well known to Council. And everybody knows
17 that we have a Charter and operate under the Home Rule City.
18 But when you are proving things,, then that's another matter
19 and you've got to get them In evidence .
20
So, I want to introduce in evidence the Charter
21 of the City of Beaumont . And I refer to pages one through
22 62 of the Official Code of the City of Ordinances and the
23
Charter of the City of Beaumont,* and ask if it would be
24
permissible to withdraw this after a copy has been furnish-
25 ed to the court reporter In lieu of this volume . (Pages re-
ferred to are made a part hereof by reference)
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 6
In addition to that, we introduce the Zoning
2 Ordinance prepared by the City, which we have here, and
3 it will be available. (Attached hereto)
4 And then we next introduce copy of the Oil and
5 Gas Well Application and Drilling Ordinance, Chapter 24
6 of the City Code . We introduce the Code on that subject.
7 And this is the copy of that Chapter 24 permitting Permits
8 to be granted. (Applicant' #3 attached hereto)
9 1 presume the City Clerk has -- it it correct
10 that you have the Application filed by Lucas & Company?
11 CITY CLERK: Yes, sir, I do.
12 MR. ADAMS : We would like to introduce the
13 original Application filed by Lucas & Company for this per_
14 mit to drill the well together with the payment of the
15 filing fee of $300.00, the Bond and the Certificate of
16 (A p#4 attached hereto)
Insurance. Do you have those?
17 CITY CLERK: (Handing)
18 MR. ADAMS: Attached to these papers which
19 1 have Is the official receipt of the City of Beaumont show-
20 ing Lucca & Company paid the $300.00 fee, June the 7th,
21 and filed this Application for Permit together with the
22 insurance certificate showing the requisite amount of
23 insurance coverage as required by the Drilling Permit Ordi-
24 nance; together with the Application for the Permit to
25 Drill the Well. And attached thereto is an exhibit showing
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 7
the location. And we will have bigger exhibits on the
2 board to demonstrate to the Council.
3 We will want this to stay with the Court Re-
4 porter until we can substitute a 'copy.
5 Then we have the bond in accordance with the
6 Drill Permit Ordinance of $25,000-00, which we will intro- ,-.,,
7 duce here.
8 That constitutes at this time all the prelim-
9 inary, and what we consider to be jurisdictional exhibits
10 necessary for this Council to have actual legal juridic-
11 ton.
12 Now* if the Council would permit, I would like
13 to call a very distinguished geologist, who will give us
14 some idea about whether this is just a speculative wild-cat
15 well to be drilled or whether it is something that is a
16 first-class prime prospect for the production of oil and
17 gas. And that's Dr. C. B. Claypool.
is Doctor, would you take this chair, please,
19 DR. C. B. CLAYS OOL
20 called in behalf of the Applicant, testified as follows:
21 EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. ADAMSt
23 Q. You are Dr. C. B. Claypool.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Doctor, how long have you been a professional
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
II
i PAGE 8
geologist?
2 A. Since 1929.
3 Do you have any degrees evidencing study in
4 the field of geology?
5 A. I have a Ph.D., University of Illinois, 1933.
6
Doctor of Philosophy degree in Geology.
7
A. Yes, sir.
8
Thereafter you practiced where?
9 A. I practiced -- after the degree?
10
Yes .
11 A. I practiced first with the Illinois Geological 'n
12 Survey. And then following that the U.S. Geological Survey �,
13
Topographical Division.
14
I came to Texas from Illinois in 1934, the
15 fall, and entered into the field of Geophysics and worked
16
for the Independent Exploration Company for a year-and-a-
17 half. They were situated in Houston.
18 In February, 1946, 1 became Gulf Coast Divi-
19
sion Geologist for the Sun Oil Co. And I was with them for
20
a period of 11 years, resigning in February, 1947, to con-
21
duct a private consulting practice.
22 And since 1947 you have been a private prac-
23
tieing Geologist in the consulting field since 1947.
24 A. That is correct.
25 Actually you have been working in the field of
Geology since about 1927, have you not?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
i
i'
PAGE 9
i'
I 1 A. That is correct. I went to the University of
2 Illinois with the thought of being a Petroleum Geologist.
3 So, you have been practicing actually about
4 47 years .
5 �
That is correct Yes.
I 6
1 know this sometimes gives a man a little
7
feeling of embarrassment, but we want to try to demonstrate
s your ability, Doctor, and I will ask you if whether or not
I 9
since you have been an independent Geologist in 1947 down
10 to date, you have been the moving and
grime factor in study
11 ing Geology and locating what has turned out to be coil
12 f ields or gas fields in this area?
13 A. That would be correct, yes.
14 How many coil or gas fields in Jefferson County
15 alone have you been one Of the prime movers, developers and
I
16 discoverers Cif
17 A. Over 20, air.
18 Q Over 20.
19 Yes.
20 Q. As such of course that is
g � Just Jefferson
21 County.
22 A. That is correct.
23 Q. That doesn't include areas out of this county, And
24 you are today a practicing Geologist Consultant.
25 A. Yes.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER -
PAGE
10
Doctor, have you had occasion in this energy
2
crisis and by the way is this energy crisis that we
3
read about, is it a simulated thing; or, as a roan in this
4 field, can you tell us whether it's real or simulated?
5 A would prefer to say very definitely and
positively it is very real.
7 An oil reservoir or gas reservoir is like
8
any other reservoir, when you pump all the oil and gas out, ,
9
it is then without any hydrocarbons.
10
Is that correct?
11 A. Well, essentially so. There might be a 3econ-
12
dart' recovery on occasion that we recover additional amounts.
13 But in normal Gulf-coast areas primary recovery accounts
14
for almost the entirety.
15
And, therefore, if there is to be sufficient
C) 16 energy to operate this country, there needs to be more
17 discovery of oil and gas and hydrocarbons as they call it.
18 A. I feel it 's very, very necessary.
19 Now, have you made a study of the proposed
20
Drill site for which Lucas & Company has made Application,
21 so that you can tell us something about the geology of that
22
particular location?
23 A. Yes.
24
I will give you this pointer if you happen to
25
need it. I might try to bring this thing up a little
EDNA LABovE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE
closer (Exhibiting large map) .
10 2
Now, Doctor, this location is in what we
3
know as H. Williams Abstract 56 League in Jefferson County,;
4 is it not?
5 A. Yes.
6 Right there (indicating) . It's a little
7
square. I see on this map a dark line right here (indi-
8
eating) North of the location and another dark line farther",
9
North of the location.
0 10 A. That is the locale of two significant faults in
11
the area at the horizon of the first marginal line of sand
12 which is mid-Obligocene in age.
13 When we speak of a "fault" in order to find
14 this oil and gas, it has to accumulate some place. And
15 in the oil and gas fields, we speak of traps, do we not,
16 or maybe a dome like Spindletop.
17 A. Yes.
18
But elsewhere sometimes we refer to it as a
19
trap- And that trap is created when the land or surface
20
is level. And then something occurs and the lower side
21
breaks off leaving a bank. And then the hydrocarbons
22 drift to and gather against that bank. And that's called
23 the trap.
24
Is that correct or not?
25 A. That is correct; in a generalized way, that's
EDNA LASOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 12
true . A fault is any discontinuity of formation where
2
there has been appreciable movement in relation of one side
3
to the other.
4
Can you point out on this map -- and by the
5
way who prepared that? Did you prepare that or was it pre- �
6 pared-
7 A. The initial work was mine, yes.
8 That's the geological study that was made.
9 A. Yes, that's true .
10 Q. And you say that this black line right here
11 that I'm pointing to on this map is a fault line .
12
A. It's a fault line at this particular horizon.
13 Bearing in mind that lower horizons would successfully trans-
14 late and move.
15
Have wells been drilled in that particular
16
area which has aided you in your study to determine where
17
this particular field might be. . . .
18
A. Yes.
19
Q- . . . .in reference to this' matter?
20 A. Very much so. The Normandy Putnam for example.
21 This Is a small amount. Let's take a larger
22
one.
23
A. It would be this well right here (indicating) .
24 a That was called the Normandy Putnam.
25 A. Normandy Oil Company on the Putnam acreage, yes.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 13
And it was drilled when?
2 A. Oh, roughly '37.
3 I And have you studied the geology from that
4 well?
5
A. Yes .
6
Were there some other wells drilled?
7
A. Yes . Two rather significant wells, one by
8 Glenn McCarthy on the .Ian .harp property which is this well
9
right here for example (indicating on large map) .
10 And this one here on the Weinbaum property.
11 And then we have a number of edge wells. What we might term
12 edge wells of the West Beaumont Field as outlined.
13
From the study of the geology of those wells,
14 can you tell that there was a fault in this area?
15 A. The fault is indicated by the structural
1 16
positions of these wells in relation to the field proper in
17
relation to other wells. For example, this large Smith
18 well to the southwest and wells further southward; so that
19
It appears that we are dealing with a small down-fallen
20
segment or block which is actually a portion of the greater
21
West Beaumont feature, which I consider a salt anticline,
22 When I say salt anticline,# we 're dealing with
23
a very deep salt, not a salt that probably will ever be J
24
found on account of depth; but, nevertheless, the appear-
; 25 ance of it indicated that it is sslt-motivated.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 14
And it 's a structure that proceeds southward
for example into the Amelia field, and northward through
3 what we term as Rosedale, which is this area here; and
4 thence northeastward into what is known as Cook's Lake
5
area .
6
It 's a very prominent geological feature and
7
long recognized.
8
Now, will you tell the Council why this par-
9
ticular well is requested to be drilled at the particular
10 location?
11 A.: I am very strongly of the opinion that the
12
Normandy Putnam- which had a very significant showing
13 in the first marginal. line of sand and a drill-sand test
14 at that point which failed could be catching so to speak;
15 which, in our terminology is have oil or gas thereon.
16
And one or two other sands which appear sus
17
Dicious on the log itself. Plus the fact that I feel very
18 confident of this particular fault here,* the relation of
19
these two wells for example; and the down-drop or lower
20
structural position in relation to the field itself.
21
Now, this particular drill site is 3.66 Acres
22 You know where it is, of course.
23 A. Yes.
24 And you have designated that as the particular
25
place . . . .
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE
15
A. Yes .
2 . . . .where the well ought to be drilled.
II
3 Yes. It is relatively favorable we will say.
4
And do you class this as a wild-cat or do you
5
class it as a prime first-class prospect for success?
6 A. I would class it as a prime first-class pros-
7 pest for success on the order of 50%.
8
You say you think it's on a 50-50 basis .
9
That's pretty high.
10 A. That is good in our business.
Now, Doctor, I believe you originally took
12 those leases in your name .
13 A. That's right.
14
And you had somebody else get them in your
name
16
A. No. I took them in my name. The 'Howth Estate
17 itself was brought to me by a very close friend: a fellow-
18 worker, a fellow geologist, Carl VanWormer.
19 And due to our long friendship he came to me
20 essentially first to get my opinion. And I liked the area .
21 1 have liked the area for quite some time. So, it was a
22
meeting of the mind so to speak.
23 From there we expanded the lease block.
24
Q1. And took in the leases on the mineral estates
25
of the various owners.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 16
A. That is correct.
Q, There are a number of local residents who
3
own minerals under these leases, are there not?
4
A. Yes .
5 Now, the people who are going to finance this
6 drilling operation, are they people from away, afar off
7 In California or New York or where are they from, Doctor?
8 A. Well, I am one of them and you know where I
9 live.
10 You live here in Beaumont.
11 A. Yes, I've lived here since the fall of '35.
12 Q, This will be financed actually by you and by
13
Lucas Company.
14
A. Mr. Lucas who is a Beaumont resident or not
15 today he Is a Houston resident. He was born here.
16 And reared here.
17 A. Tutored here so to speak.
18
You all are committing ydur-SedVesto large sums
jl 19 of money for this exploration project.
20 A. At the moment Mr. Lucas and myself are the
21 sole owners of the lease.
22 MR. ADAMS: I believe that's all.
23 If Council would have questions, we would
24 be glad to have the Doctor answer them.
25
All right. Thank you, Doctor. You may have
EoNA LABoVE
COURT REPORTER
I
I
PAGE 17
1 a seat over there ®
2 3. WILLIAMS: I have one question, Cdr. At-
3 torney ..
i
4 Ya. ADAMS: All right.
5 ASR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned -'our chances of
I
6 0-50 as being relatively high in the coil field business.
7
In relation to what so that I Haight have a better grasp to
s what you mean.
,
s M.. ADAM It's my understanding in the
10 slight experience I've had, if you get one well out of 10
11 or 20, you're lucky . What's the score, Doctor?
12 DR. CLAYPOOL.- Perennial Estimate has been
13 about one out of nine. However, recently, that locks about
14
like one out of 11. We have been very fortunate in our
15 own operations and we have approximated one out of five.
16 M.. ADAMS You can understand a man who has
17 found 21 oil fields in Jefferson County is a pretty
good
1s g uesser..
1s Dr. .dads, mould you take the chair,
please, six .
20 DR. E. A.EADS
21 called as a witness in behalf of the Applicant, testified
22 as follows:
23 BYLAMINATION
I
I 24 BY MR. ADAMS
+, 25
You are Dr. E. A. ids.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
i
PAGE 18
Yes, air.
............ Where do you live, Dr. Fads?
3 A. 915 East Lavaca, Beaumont, Texas.
4 You are a Doctor of what?
5 A. Professor of Chemistry, Doctor of Philosophy.
6
Q. And you have a Doctor's degree in Chemistry?
7
A. Yes, air.
8
You have been teaching at Lamar University
9
how long?
C, 10 A. 28 years. It will soon be 28.
11 Q. Have you done any Environmental work, Doctor?
12 A. Yes, air.
13 Are you or not a Registered Licensed Environ-
14 mentalist?
15 A. Yes, air.
16 Q1_ Registered by the State .
17 A. Yes, air.
18 Q. And authorized to practice that field of en-
19 deavor.
20 A. Yes, air.
21
Have you made one or many environmental
22 studies?
23
A. Yes, I've made several.
24 Did I request that you make an Environmental
25 Study on this drill site in the H. Williams Survey that is
0
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 19
1 under discussion here today?
2 A, Yes, sir, you did.
3
Did you make such Environmental Impact Study?
4
A. Yes, I did.
5
Now, Doctor, subsequent testimony will show.
6 And I think this big map has on it that this drill site is
7 located right here (indicating on large map exhibited to
8 Council) which is 1940 feet west of Lucas Drive. I mean
9 not Lucas, but Dowling Road.
10
And it comprises a tract of land of 3.66 Acres
11
Have you been out there on this ground?
12 A. Yes, sir, I have .
13 Would you describe to the Council the type of
14 flora and fauna, and growth and trees and shrubs and brush
15 and that sort of thing on this piece of property.
16 A. Yes, sir. It's very thick; mostly hardwood;
17 a brushy area and practically impenetrable without hacking
18 out some shrubbery and some underbrush. It's quite dense.
19 Q, Now, by measurement we are showing here the
20 location of this well site to the nearest property line is
21
300 feet east and to the nearest property line north is
22
300 feet.
23 Are you aware that that well is proposed to
24 be located at that juncture right there on this tract of
25 land which is on the southwest corner of the 3.66 Acres?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 20
A. Yes.
2 Q.
Are you aware of it?
3 A. Right.
4
Q11 Now, were you given information with reference
5
to the kind of drilling rig that would be used. . . .
6
A. Yes .
7
. . . .to drill this well?
8
A. Yes.
9
Q_ Were you told it was a particular-number rig
10
of a particular company?
11 A. Yes.
12
Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7.
13 A. Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7, yes, air.
14 Q. Were you told where that rig was in actual
15 operation so you could go look at it?
16
A. It was nine miles north of Silsbee.
17 At the time you saw its
18 A. Yes, air.
19 Q, And you identified it. Did they have any
20 signs out there., Big Six Drilling, Rig No. 7?
21 A. Yes . Yes, on the road turnoff as you go into
22
the property there on the Weaver property.
23 01 So that this Council will have an opportunity
24 to evaluate the question of noise; did you have a noise
25 meter with you or a meter of some kind to monitor the noise
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 21
or the sound at certain distances from this rig as it is
2
perceived and received by the listener?
3
A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Did you measure it at a distance of a 100 feet
5 from the rig?.
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. What kind of rig is this, a steam rig or a
8 diesel rig.
9
A. A diesel driven rig.
10
And at 100 feet what was the register of the
sound vollume?
12 A. There was no noise above 90 decibels and the
13 average noise about 75 decibels.
14
No noise from this drilling rig above 90
15 devibels and generally about 75.
16
A. Yes, sir.
17
Did you measure it at 150 or 200 feet?
A. I measured it on down to--I approximated 300
19
feet.
20
At 200 feet what was the decibels?
21
A. It dropped off to 80, 82, 83 decibels . No
22
noise above that. Average down around about 65 to 70
23
decib els .
24
300 feet away from this drilling rig what
25 was the measurement of the sound?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
1
PAGE 22
A. 60 and 65 decibels.
2
We have talked about 60 and 65 decibels. And
3
we have shown here that this well location will be 60 feet
4 from the nearest property line.
5
Tell 'us about what a decibel is, Doctor.
6 A. A decibel is the amount of noise that it takes
7 to make an audible sound; Just simply that. It is the
8
amount of pressure it takes to make it in other words to
9 where one can bear it, where the average person can bear
10 it.
11
You made a study on this question of deoribels
12
and noise and the perception of noise by listeners . What
13
is the level of noise on a public street say like Pearl
14 street out here?
15
A. It'll run close to 75-70, three-way traffic.
16 At what distance?
17 A. 15 meters .
18
And a meter is about 39 inches.
19
A. About a yard.
20
So that would be 15 or 18 yards away.
21
A. Right off the grass you might say.
22 Now, how about these people who live on the
23 freeway, these big diesel trucks that go by there? By the
24
way, what would be the decibels on the freeway:
25 A. From a large truck operating at 15 meters it
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
! I
I
� I4
PAGE 23
i
1 is 90 decibels, heavy, heavy truck.
2 - From what distance?
3 A. 15 meters .
4 Q1• lj meters . That would be about 15 or 16 yards
5 Suppose you were 300-feet away from that diesel?
6 A. It drops off rapidly- 10 decibels per 100 ft.
7 a That would came can dawn then to about 60.
8 A. About 60. That's one of the reasons for get-
9 t ing back off the freeway is the noise. That's one of the
i
10 reasons.
11 a If one were 00-feet away in an airconditioned
i
12 home with windows down and the doors closed, would one be
I
13 able to hear this particular rig operating on this location`
14 A. It would be just about th j level of 4 library..
15 Qa Library.
16 A. Yes„ sir,
17
Q= I thought they maintained real quiet in li-
braries where I used to go to school. Haw about you all?
19 A. 3 decibels.
e is
20r 35 decibels.
I
21 Then one would have no
problem sleeping or
22 living or Ustening to your TV or something like that, would
23 they?
24 A. Shouldn't
25
Q. All right.
I
'i
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
i
i
i
PAGE 24
I f A. The heavy dense growth should muffle any
2 noise that is produced 300 feet away from heavy, dense
3 undergrowth.
4 Just the undergrowth alone?
5 A. Just the undergrowth alone.
6 Are these motors muffled or not?
7 A— The beat mufflers we can buy have been in-
8 stalled on these. I have the word of the owner on this.
9 Now, this isn't just some guess or an opinion
10 of yours. You took a meter. . . .
11 A. Right.
12 Q. . . . .to measure the sound.
13 A. Yes.
14 That's what I told you to do. I wanted facts .
15 1 told you I didn' t want guessing, didn't I?
16 A. That's right.
17 n Now, bow about the smoke coming from it? Were
18 there big clouds of smoke polluting the air where this rig
19 was operating or not?
20 A. No, sir, no smoke.
21 q. No smoke .
22 A. No dust- no smoke.
23 No dust and no smoke. Do you have any reason
24 to believe there would be any dust or smoke from this
25 drilling rig being located on this 3.66-Acre tract of land?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 25
A. I do not.
2
Operating day and night?
3
A. Right.
4 Have you had some experience with living close
5 to where they drilled an oil well?
6
A. 250 feet; yes, air.
7 250 feet. Where were you living at the time
8 they drilled this oil well?
9 A. 915 East Lavaca street in Beaumont.
10 Q, That 's right across the street from Lamar
11
University, isn't it?
12 A. Yes, air.
13 Where did they drill that well, Doctor9
14 On the Campus.
15 On the Campus. Was that well drilled right
16 where McDonald Gym is now located?
17 A. That is approximately the spot.
You were a professor at the university at that
19
time.
20
A. Yes, air.
21
And bow far was that well being drilled from
22 Dr. John Gray's home west of there, the President's home,
23
I mean where Dr. John Gray actually lived tbere9.
24
About 200 feet about 150 to 200 feet I would
25 judge.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 26
And how far was that well being drilled from
10 2
the President's home of Lamar University at the time?
3 A. About the same distance.
4 I-About the same distance.
5 Now, was there any disturbance of the people
6 out there when they drilled that well?
7 A. Not especially. We didn't have aircondition-
8 ers .
9
You didn't have airconditioners.
0 10 A. No. Wekad open windows.
11
Open windows.
12
A. That's right. We had attic fans.
13
You had attic fans.
14
A. Right.
15 1 bet those attic fans made almost as much
16 noise as the rig, didn't they?
17 A. That's right.
18 QO. But anyway they were actually drilling on the
19 University property, where the McDonald Gym is now or there
20 a bouts.
21
A. Just about.
22
And the neighbors were they disappointed in
23
what happened out there, Doctor?
24
A� We hoped they would get oil.
C- 25 Q-. They didn't get oil.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 27
A. They didn't get oil.
2
And that was the only real disappointment
3
that you all had, wasn't it?
4
True.
5
And you didn't have any thick trees or growth
6 or underbrush separating you all from the rig and you did
7 1
not have airconditiofted homes at that time and you made it
8 all right and lived to testify today.
9
A. Sure did.
10
Now, can you tell us something about the deci-
bels of noise produced by one of these saws that's out
12 there right where this very location is,, in that vicinity?
13
There is construction going on out there and they have bull
14 dozers operating out there, do they not?
15
A. Yes, sir.
16 And they have saws working.
17 A. Yes .
What are the decibels turned up by those saws
19
as they hum out there?
20
A. Sustained noise on those will be around 90 to
21
95 decibels .
22
Q. What distance?
23 A. Within five meters of the saw where one is
24 building a house and sawing lumber. It's right at the
25 point where it's annoying.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE
How about the bulldozers operating out there
clearing those roadways and laying down roads?
3
A. Well, they are--I would say it is about the
4
same as freeway traffic; about 90 decibels, something like
5 heavy-truck traffic, similar to that
6
They are I believe D-8, D-9. I don't know. f.
7
didn't look at the power on those machines but they have
8
a blade on them using them for earth moving, diesels.
9
Those pieces of equipment are out there opera- �
0� 10 ting.
11 A. Yes.
12
And have been for a long time expanding that
13 addition.
14 A. Right.
15
And they are clearing more roads and there are
16 houses being built right now.
17
A. Right.
18
And you went out there and viewed them,?
19 A. I did.
20 Q, And you took some pictures of the bulldozers
21 out there operating.
22
A.
Yea, air.
23
Q, Now that bulldozer that was operating out
24 there, was it in compliance with the Environmental law?
25 No, sir.
EDNA LABOvE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 29
What was comingfrom that bulldozer operating
2 out there?
3
A. It had black smoke emission.
4 Did you see any smoke coming from this Big
5 Six Drilling Rig No. 7 when you saw it operating?
6
A. No, air.
7
Q1_ And you have pictures of this bulldozer with
8 the black smoke coming from it, do you not?
9 A. Yes, air.
10 Q1. How about the decibels from a motorbike as
11
they rev them up and go by your house; what sort of sound
12 do you get on your porch say or in your house?
13 A. I judge you would get from about 75 to 90
14 decibels depending on where you are located; whether you
15 are riding it or whether you are adjacent to the machine.
16
And it's in the -- some of the larger bikes
17 will go up to a 100 decibels. And the way they have them
18
muffled they may even go over that. If they don't have
19
mufflers on those bikes, these large Harley-Davidson would
20
go way over a 100 decibels. And they get to be ear-split-
21 ting as you well know.
22 Q. Now, Doctor, did you make some investigation
23 with reference to the weight of this rig as it would be
24 brought in on the streets? Did you get the weights on this
25 rig and the truck?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 30
A. Yes . I have all these weights from the public
.2 scales given to--as they were given to Mr. Lucas and be
3 gave them to me. And I made some calculations on these.
4 And I believe every piece of equipment has its
5 weight here in this report. I believe you have a copy of
6 this. And we have each machine with each motor and with
7
each load of pipe, ith each tank, with each-everything
8 as documented here . I believe you will find a weight cer-
9 tificate on each one of these as Phillip—
10 Q_ All right. Now--
11 A. . . . .gave them to me .
12
Q, How much weight per square inch--well, wait
13 a minute.
14 This rig is on a moveable frame, is it not?
15
A. Yes .
16
Q, A motor frame.
17
A. It Is on a frame much like a truck.
18
They will just drive the thing in there and
19
set up the rig right there from the motor frame itself.
20
A. It's a -- right.
21
Now, you say it was near Silsbee when you saw
22 it. Could it have gotten to that location without going
23 over the highway to get there?
24
A. No, air.
25 And, when it's moved, it will be moved over
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
i
PAGE 3
i
1 the highway.
i
3 Q. And could it be moved into this location with-
4 out damage to these streets?
5 A. 'des, sir.
i
6 Is there any question in your mind about that
I 7 whatsoever?
8 A. None.
I
9 Have much weight will this rig and these pieces
i
I 10 of equipment as they come in there on trucks, how much
11 weight psi will they put can the surface of the concrete
12 streets?
13 A. I estimate by calculation and depending on
14 the amount of air in the tires at the time it's brought in,
15 between 400 and 1,000 psi.
16 We have a factor which according to concrete
17 strength would be 3,000 psi. So we have quite a safety
18 factor built into this thing.
19 And if you calculate this on s load. actual
20 strength of 6,,000 lbs . we still have maybe a little better
21 factor here...
22 But as far as the breaking strength of con-
23 crete we are still safe by a factor of anywhere franthree
24 to seven units. So we have plenty of strength in the
25 streets. We have plenty of strength in the concrete.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
I
I
I
1
PAGE 32
And this is documented here at the City and
2 the people who test the sheets ® From these figures and
3
from the weight of this equipment, it is public evidence
4 as to the amount of poundage he will have on the streets
5
and the load-bearing capacity of the street.
And I think this is for the Council's consid-
7 eration in this document here, too. They can look it over.
8
They are welcome to see your Environmental
9
Impact Study.
10
A. They certainly are .
We will introduce one Just as well to do it
12 right now. We introduce Dr. Bads' Environmental Study.
13
(Whereupon, at this time, Environmental Impact
14 Studay was marked for identification as Applicant Exhibit
15
# 5_ and accompanies this record at the close hereof. )
16 BY MR. ADAM:
17 Q. Now, Doc tor, of this rig is moved in, you
18 say there will be no damage or barm to the roads or the
19
streets out there in this Addition in the City of Beaumont
20 by the moving of it
21 A. That's right.
22
Now, after it is moved in, will there be met-
23 hods of containing the drilled mud they call it as the drib-
24
ling rig ,goes down' will there be methods to contain that
25
drilled mud?
EDNA LABoVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 33
A. Yes. All of the muds and all of the materi-
2 als coming in and used in the well coming out of the
3 hole and going into the hole will be in tanks. And it
4 will be well down around all of the. surfaces will not be
5 allowed to drain off into the ditches.
6 And we will look in on this daily to see that
7 this is carried out as part of our agreement. And we will
8 oversee this as professionals to see that this is carried
9 on In a professional-like clean manner.; not scattering this
10 material around and becoming polluted as far as water, air,
11 noise, solid waste, the whole bit.
12 1 ask you, Doctor, If you would monitor this
13
as Environmental Specialist of this area. Do you monitor
14 this operation to see there is no Environmental disturbance
15
with reference to smoke or noise or mud or mud or things
16 like that?
17
A. I will.
18
And, as a Registered Environmentalist, you are
19 obligated to do that, are you not?
20
A. Right.
21
MR. ADAM, I believe that's all. Thank you.
22
Wait a minute. I would like himto show these pictures if
Ili 23 you don' t mind.
24 If you will turn off the main lights, I would
25
Like for the Council to see about four pictures.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE
34
(By Mr. Adams) Doctor, would you explain
2
the pictures as they appear on the screen.
3
A. This is the entryway off of Stacewood Drive
4
into the property itself that is the 3.66 Acres of the dril
5
ling site . This is the entryway off of Stacewood Drive .
6
And the principals own this property and they will not
7
tear up other people's property getting in. This entryway
8
is on their own site.
9
This is the land, you are looking perpendicu-
10
lar to it, the 60-ft. entryway there. And these are the
houses: one adjacent to the property and the houses across
12
the street from Stacewood Drive .
13
Next picture:- This is the dense undergrowth
14 that you see in this area . And walking back about 25 or
15
30 feet into this property is this thick, dense underbrush
16
of all vanities. And it's very thick, like a jungle. With
1 17
the color wide open that's all the color I could get into
18
it.
19
Next film:- This is standing looking up at
20
the place. And I was standing trying to see through the
21
dense upper levels of the oak and some pine.
22
Next picture : - This is looking out into the
23
same thing. You see that this is very densely populated.
24
And 300 feet back in there it is impossible to see. You
25 have to clear this, a little roadway to get into the property
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 35
1 to the back side of this 3.66 Acres.
2 Next picture:- And that's the little black
3 cloud there above the tractor that is violating Regulation
4 2, smoke in particular of the Texas Air Control Board.
5 How far is that from the location itself?
6 A. This is north of the location. You are looking
7 directly into the other side of it, the 3.66 Acres.
8 MR. ADAMS: All right. I believe that's all.
9 Thank you. Shut it off.
10 MR. GREIG: Your Honor, to hold the continuity,,
11 may we ask Dr. Eads a few questions relating to the En-
12 vironmental Agency?
13 MR. ADAMS: It's all right with us.
14 MAYOR: All right, sir.
15 MR. GREIG: My name is Carl Greig. And I live
16 at 6765 Knollwood.
17 EXAMINATION OF DR. EADS
18 BY MR. GREIG:
19 You said the drilling rig where you made the
20 sound measurement the decibel rating at 300 feet was 60
21 to 65. Is that correct?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 You are familiar, I am sure, with OSHA, the Oc-
24 cupational Safety and Health Administration.
25 A. I am.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 36
For those of you who are not, this is a federal
2 agency which passes regulations regarding to--relating to
II
3 workers' safety.
4
Do you know what the OSHA regulation is for noise 'I,
5 level?
6 A. I do.
7
Q. You are the witness. Tell us .
A. 0. K. OSHA. will allow 90 decibels for eight hours.
9 Could you extrapolate that to 24 hours?
10 A. But we are not---in other words, in coming on
down, as it gets to 60 decibels and 70 decibels, this is
12 graduated in hours according to OSITIA.
13 But,, in other words, we are not dealing--
14
That is it for 60 hours? This will be operating
15 around the clock in other words as I understand it.
16 A. 6o?
17 Or 60 decibels.
18
A. For 60 decibels I understand there is no restric-
19
Lion on 60 decibels. That's nominal. That is what you
20 would expect from street noise. There is no restriction on
21 this .
22 Q. 1 just point out. I don't have those figures.
23 All I am aware of is the 90-decibel rating. And there is
II 24 talk of reducing that to 85 for an 8-hr. period. And these
25
people will be exposed to it 24 hours a day. You talk about
EDNA LAE30VE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 37
the undergrowth and being indoors but I think we ought to
2
keep that in mind.
3 A. Let me caution You. Now, 90 decibels is measured
4 at very close to the rig site itself, at less than--
5
My only point is--
6
A. . . . .a 100 feet.
7
. . . .that the OSHA regulation is independent of
8 distance. It 's just an average of 90 decibels.
9 And I don't know whether your measurements in-
10
10 eluded the clanging of drilling pipes or whether it was--
A. It was the noisiest noise I could hear.
12 The point is 60 or 65 is below 90, but the 90
13 is based on eight hours. And we live out there 24 hours a
14 day.
15
Well, you won't be suffering that though.
16 Q. 65?
17 A. 65 is what we have in this room about 45 to
19
I thought you said it was 65 at 300 feet.
20 AP Outside an the street level it' s about 65.
21
Q. Not too many of us like to live by the side of
22 a street. There is one other question I have. There are a
23 number of questions related.
24 There is a well site I guess west of the newest
25 street in Dowlen West. And there is a pretty fair strip of
EDNA LABovE
COURT REPORTER
II
PAGE 38
land maybe a 100 yards wide that extends back to Stacewood
2 where there are no trees.
3 And, if you drive along Dowlen Road toward Park-
4 dale Mall, there are a number of well sites in that area.
5 If you will notice that, there are a number of dead trees
6 around each of these sites.
7 How can we be sure that this won 't happen here?
8 A Well, you have your--you are bound by every law
9 in the country. And one of the things that you can do is
10
have the laws enforced that are on the books.
11 Q. These sites were bound by the same law, were they
12 not?
13 A. As of that 1965-1972 Act, no. These were bound
14 by certain laws worked up by the Railroad Commission on
15 the dumping of salt water. A lot of this damage was done
16 a long time before the present EPA was in effect. Now,
17 accidents do happen.
18 o Yes .
19 A. But at the peril of the man doing it. He is
20 nearly automatically out of business. The fine is so severe!
21 that he is cautious not to use any indiscreet method.
22 At $10,000.00 a day or $20,000.00 a day, whatever
23 the EPA Administrator would care to give, it seems to be
24 whatever the traffic needs to bear,
25 That 's what happens if something like this happens.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
it
PAGE 39
I If a spill occurs, it is very, very expensive.
2 MR. GREIG.- Thank you.
3 MR. HOPKINS: Your Honor, may I say a word? My
4 name is Richard Hopkins. I live at 930 Norwood in Dowlen
5 West.
6 As far as dead trees go, somebody told me that
7 up here at the corner of Madrid and Stacewood they had
81 counted 20 dead trees and no where near an oil well.
9 As far as noise goes, that 90 decibels the wit-
10 ness mentioned there on making the trip. Those trips don't
11 last long. And that's if you're right there at the rig
12 floor,, because I've been around too many rigs to know
13 otherwise.
14 The rig when it is operating just the drilling
15 itself will make fewer decibels than that.
lo. 16 DR. BADS: Yes. You are speaking for the well,
17 are you not?
MR. HOPKINS: Yes.
19 DR. FADS: Well., I want to be careful.
20 MR. HOPKINS: The idea this noise is going to
21 bother anybody is highly overrated in my opinion.
22 DR. EA DS- I agree.
23 R. HOPKINS.- And so I would like the people to
24 understand when you are talking about 90 decibels right
25 at the rig during the trip, that 's not 24 hours a day.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 4o
That is just a few hours at a time. Thank you.
2
MR. ADAMS: If there are no further questions,
3 Doctor, you may have a seat over there. And I'll--
4 DR. EADS: Thank you.
5 MRS. KHOURY: May I ask one question_, Mayor Rit-
6 ter?
7 My name is Pat Khoury. I live at 845 Stacewood
8 Drive. There is some confusion in my mind. I thought
9 this was a public hearing for people to come and hear the
10 evidence and express their opinion.
11 And, although I am sure we are are all going to
12 have a chance to express an opinion, I would only like to
13 satisfy myself in that because it is a public hearing,
14 we,, as a community., have not brought a lawyer to, in a
15 sense, represent us as equally and as well as Mr. Adams
16 is representing his case.
17
I would like to know now.- Does this mean this is
18
our day in court for the beginning and end of justice?
19 Is this the court decision or is there any recourse to us
20 after this.
21 1 must say I give Mr. Adams and Lucas & Company
22 a great deal of credit for knowing the law, and I will
23 quote "pulling a fast one", because this was only supposed
24 to be a public hearing.
25 What I'd like to knov is, how do we have our day
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
MR. ADAMS: Attached to these papers which I have is the offical receipt of the
City of Beaumont showing Lucas & Company paid the $300. 00 fee, June the 7th, and
filed this Application for Permit together with the insurance certificate show-
ing the requisite amount of insurance coverage as required by the Drilling Per-
mit ordinance; together with the Application for the Permit to Drill the well .
And attached thereto is an exhibit showing the location. And we will have big-
ger exhibits on the board to demonstrate to the Council .
We will want this to stay with the Court Reporter until we can substitute a
copy.
Then we have the bond in accordance with the Drill Permit Ordinance of $25, 000,
which we will introduce here.
That constitutes at this time all the preliminary, and what we consider to be
jurisdictional exhibits necessary for this Council to have actual legal juris-
diction.
Now, if the Council would permit, I would like to call a very distinguished geo-
logist, who will give us some idea about whether this is just a speculative
wild-cat well to be drilled or whether it is something that is a first-class
prime prospect for the production of oil and gas. And that "s Dr. C. B. Claypool.
Doctor, would you take this chair, please.
(Dr. C. B. Claypool called in behalf of the Applicant, testified as follows : )
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. You are Dr. C. B. Claypool?
A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, how long have you been a professional geologist?
A. Since 1929.
Q. Do you have any degrees evidencing study in the field of geology?
A. I have a Ph.D. , University of Illinois, 1933 .
Q. Doctor of Philosophy degree in Geology?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Thereafter you practices where?
A. I practiced -- after the degree?
Q. Yes.
A. I practiced first with the Illinois Geological Survey. And then follow-
ing that the U. S. Geological Survey Topographical Division.
I came to Texas from Illinois in 1934, the fall, and entered into the field of
Geophysics and worked for the independent Exploration Company for a year-and-a-
half. They were situated in Houston,
In February, 1946, 1 became Gulf Coast Division Geologist for the Sun Oil Co.
And I was with them for a period of 11 years, resigning in February, 1947 , to
conduct a private consulting practice.
Q. And since 1947 you have been a private practicing Geologist in the con-
sulting field since 1947 .
A. That is correct.
Q. Actually you have been working in the field of Geology since about 1927 ,
have you not?
-3- June 20, 1974
A. That is correct. I went to the University of Illinois with the thought
of being a Petroleum Geologist.
Q. So, you have been practicing actually about 47 years.
A. That is correct. Yes.
Q. I Know this sometimes gives a man a little feeling of embarrassment, but
we want to try to demonstrate your ability, Doctor, and I will ask you it whe-
ther or not since you have been an independent Geologist in 1947 down to date,
you have been the moving and prime factor in studying Geology and locating what
has turned out to be oil fields or gas fields in this area?
A. That would be correct, yes .
Q. How many oil or gas fields in Jefferson County alone have you been one of
the prime movers, developers and discoverers of?
A. over 20, sir.
Q. over 20.
A. Yes.
Q. As such, of course, that is just Jefferson County.
A. That is correct.
Q. That doesn't include areas out of this county. And you are today a prac-
ticing Geologist Consultant.
A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, have you had occasion in this energy crisis - and by the way is
this energy crisis that we read about, is it a simulated thingl oras a man in
this field, can you tell us whether it's real or simulated?
A. I would prefer to say very definitely and positively it is very read.
Q. An oil reservoir or gas reservoir is like any other reservoir, when you
pump all the oil and gas out, it is then without any hydrocarbons. Is that
correct?
A. Well, essentially so. There might be a secondary recovery on occasion
that we recover additional amounts. But in normal Gulf-coast areas primary
recovery accounts for almost the entirety.
Q. And, therefore, if there is to be sufficient energy to operate this coun-
try, there needs to be more discovery of oil and gas and hydrocarbons as they
call it.
A. I feel it 's very, very necessary,
Q. Now, have you made a study of the proposed Drill site for which Lucas &
Company has made Application, so that you can tell us something about the geo-
logy of that particular location?
A. Yes.
Q. I will give you this pointer if you happen to need it. I might try to
bring this thing up a little closer (Exhibiting large map) . Now, Doctor, this
location is in what we know as H. Williams Abstract 56 League in Jefferson
County, is it not?
A. Yes.
Q. Right there. It's a little square. I see on this map a dark line right
here North of the location and another dark line farther North of the location.
-4- June 20, 1974
A. That is the locale of two significant faults in the area at the horizon of
the first marginal line of sand which is mid-Obligocent in age.
Q. When we speak of a "fault" in order to find this oil and gas, it has to
accumulate some place. And in the oil and gas fields, we speak of traps, do we
not, or maybe a dome like Spindletop.
A. Yes.
Q. But elsewhere sometimes we refer to is as a trap. And that trap is cre
ated when the land or surface is level. And then something occurs and the lower
side breaks off leaving a bank. And then the hydrocarbons drift to and gather
against that bank. And that*s called the trap. Is that correct or not?
A. That is correct; in a generalized way, that's true. A fault is any dis-
continuity of formation where there has been appreciable movement in relation
of one side to the other.
Q. Can you point out on this map -- and by the way who prepared that? Did
you prepare that or was it prepared—
A. The initial work was mine, yes.
Q. That's the geological study that was made.
A. Yes, that's true.
Q. And you say that this black line right here that I 'm pointing to on this
map is a fault line,
A. It' s a fault line at this particular horizon, Bearing in mind that lower
horizons would successfully translate and move,
Q. Have wells been drilled in that particular area which has aided you in
your study to determine where this particular field might be, , . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .in reference to this matter?
A. Very much so. The Normandy Putnam for example,
Q. This is a small amount. Let"s take a larger one.
A. it would be this well right here (indicating) ,
Q. That was called the Normandy Putnam.
A. Normandy Oil Company on the Putnam acreage, yes.
Q. And it was drilled when?
A. Oh, roughly "37 .
Q. And have you studied the geology from that well?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there some other wells drilled?
A. Yes, Two rather significant wells, one by Glenn McCarthy on the Langham
property which is this well right here for example (indicating) . And this one
here on the Weinbaum property. And then we have a number of edge wells. What
we might term edge wells of the West Beaumont Field as outlined.
Q. From the study of the geology of those wells, can you tell that there was
a fault in this area?
-5- June 20, 1974
A. The fault is indicated by the structural positions of these wells in re-
lation to the field proper in relation to other wells'. For example, this large
Smith well to the southwest and wells further southward) so that it appears
that we are dealing with a small down-fallen segment or block which is actually
a portion of the greater West Beaumont feature, which I consider a salt anti-
cline.
When I say salt anticline, we 're dealing with a deep salt, not a salt that prob-
ably will ever be found on account of depth,- but, nevertheless, the appearance
of it indicated that it is salt-motivated.
And it's a structure that proceeds southward for example into the Amelia field,
and northward through what we term as Rosedale, which is this area here; and
thence northeastward into what is known as Cook's Lake area,
It' s a very prominent geological feature and long recognized.
Q. Now, will you tell the Council why this particular well is requested to
be drilled at the particular location?
A. I am very strongly of the opinion that the Normandy Putnam which had very
significant showing in the first marginal line of sand and a drill,sand test at
that point which failed could be catching so to speak; which, in our terminol-
ogy is have oil or gas thereon.
And one or two other sands which appear suspicious on the log itself. Plus the
fact that I feel very confident of this particular fault here; the relation of
these two wells for example, and the down-drop or lower structural position in
realtion to the field itself .
Q. Now, this particular drill site is 3 .66 Acres, You know where it is, of
course.
A. Yes.
Q. And you have designated that as the particular place, . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .where the well ought to be drilled.
A. Yes. It is relatively favorable we will say,
Q. And do you class this as a wild-cat or do you class it as a prime firstr
class prospect for success?
A. I would class it as a prime first-class prospect for success on the order
of 50%.
Q. You say you think it's on a 508-50 basis, That 's pretty high.
A. That is good in our business.
Q. Now, Doctor, I believe you originally took those leases in your name.
A. That's right.
Q. And you had somebody else get them in your name,
A. No. I took them in my name. The Howth Estate itself was brought to me
by a very close friend: a fellow worker, a fellow-geologist, Carl VanWormer.
And dueto our long friendship he came to me essentially first to get my opin-
ion. And I liked the area. Ihave liked the area for quite some time. So, it
was a meeting of the mind so to speak. From there we expanded the lease block.
Q. And took in the leases on the mineral estates of the various owners.
-6- June 20, 1974
A. That is correct.
Q. There are a number of local residents who own minerals under these leases,
are there not?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, the people who are going to finance this drilling operation, are they
Deople from away, afar off in California or New York or where are they from,
Doctor?
A. Well, I am one of them and you know where I live,
Q. You live here in Beaumont.
A. Yes, I 've lived here since the fall of 135.
Q. This will be financed actually by you and by Lucas & Company.
A. Mr. Lucas who is a Beaumont resident or not today he is a Houston resi-
dent. He was born here.
Q. And reared here.
A. Tutored here so to speak,
Q. You all are committing yourselves to large sums of money for this explora-
tion project.
A. At the moment Mr. Lucas and myself are the sole owners of the lease.
MR. ADAMS: I believe that 's all, If Council would have questions, we would
be glad to have the Doctor answer them, All right, Thank you, Doctor. You
may have a seat over there,
MR. WILLIAMS : I have one question, Mr. Attorney,
MR. ADAMS: All right
MR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned your chances of 50--50 as being relatively high in
the oil field business. In relation to what so that I might have a better grasp
to what you mean,
MR. ADAMS: It's my understanding in the slight experience I've had, if you get
one well out of 10 or 20, you 're lucky. What 's the score, Doctor?
DR. CLAYPOOL: Perennial Estimate has been about one out of nine. However, re-
cently, that looks about like one out of 11. We have been very fortunate in our
own operations and we have approximated one out of five.
MR. ADAMS: You can understand a man who has found 21 oil fields in Jefferson
County is a pretty good guesser.
Dr. Eads, would you take the chair, please, sir.
(Dr. E. A. Eads called as a witness in behalf of the Applicant, testified as
follows:
(EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS : )
Q. You are Dr. E. A. Eads.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where do you live, Dr. Eads?
A. 915 East Lavaca, Beaumont, Texas.
-7- June 20, 1974
Q. You are a Doctor of what?
A. Professor of Chemistry. Doctor of Philosophy.
Q. And you have a Doctor's degree in Chemistry?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have been teaching at Lamar University how long?
A. 28 years. It will soon be 28 .
Q. Have you done any Environmental work, Doctor?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you or not a Registered Licensed Environmentalist?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Registered by the State,
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And authorized to practice that field of endeavor.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you made one or many environmental studies?
A. Yes, I've made several.
Q. Did I request that you make an Environmental Study on this drill site in
the H. Williams Survey that is under discussion here today?
A. Yes, sir, you did.
Q. Did you make such Environmental Impact Study?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now, Doctor, subsequent testomony will show. And I think this big map has
on it that this drill site is located right here (indicating) which is 1940 feet
west of Lucas Drive. I mean not Lucas, but Dowling Road. And it comprises a
tract of land of 4.66 Acres, Have you been out there on this ground?
A. Yes, sir, I have.
Q. Would you describe to the Council the type of flora and gatm4, and growth
and trees and shrubs and brush and that sort of thing on this pies of property.
A. Yes, sir. It' s very thick; mostly hardwoodl a brushy area and practi-
cally impenetrable without hacking out some shrubbery and some underbrush. It 's
quite dense.
Q. Now, by measurement we are showing here the location of this well site to
the nearest property line is 300 feet east and to the nearest property line is
300 feet east and to the nearest property line north is 300 feet.
Are you aware that that well is proposed to be located at that juncture right
there on this tract of land which is on the southwest corner of the 3 .66 Acres,
A. Yes.
Q. Are you aware of it?
A. Right.
-8- June 20, 1974
Q. Now, were you given information with reference to the kind of drilling rig
that would be used. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .to drill this well?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you told it was a particular-number rig of a particular company?
A. Yes.
Q. Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7 .
A. Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7, yes, sir.
Q. Were you told where that rig was in actual operation so you could go look
at it?
A. It was nine miles north of Silsbee.
Q. At the time you saw it.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you identified it. Did they have any signs out there, Big Six Drilling
Rig No. 7?
A. Yes. Yes, on the road turnoff as you go into the property there on the
Weaver property.
Q. So that this Council will have an opportunity to evaluate the question of
noise; did you have a noise meter with you or a meter of some kind to monitor
the noise or the sound at certain distances from this rig as it is preceived and
received by the listener?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you measure it at a distance of a 100 feet from the rig?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What kind of rig is this, a steam rig or a diesel rig?
A. A diesel driven rig.
Q. And at 100 feet what was the register of the sound volume?
A. There was no noise above 90 decibels and the average noise about 75 deci-
bels.
Q. No noise from this drilling rig above decibels and generally about 75.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you measure it at 150 or 200 feet?
A. I measured it on down to -- I approximated 300 feet.
Q. At 200 feet what was the decibels?
A. It dropped off to 80,82, 83 decibels. No noise above that. Average down
around 65 to 70 decibels.
Q. 300 feet away from this drilling rig what was the measurement of the sound?
-9- June, 20, 11,9"i4
A. 60 and 65 decibels.
Q. We have talked about 60 and 65 decibels. And we have shown here that this
well location will be 60 feet from the nearest property line. Tell us about
what a decibel is, Doctor.
A. A decibel is the amount of noise that it takes to make an audible sound;
just simply that. It is the amount of pressure it takes to make it in other
lords to where one can hear it, where the average person can hear it.
Q. You made a study on this question of decibels and noise and the perception
of noise by listeners. What is the level of noise on a public street say like
Pearl Street out here?
A. It'll run close to 7570, three way traffic ,
Q. At what distance?
A. 15 meters.
Q. And a meter is about 39 inches.
A. About a yard.
Q. So that would be 15 or 18 yards away.
A. Right off the grass you might say.
Q. Now, how about these people who live on the freeway, these big diesel
trucks that go by there? By the way, what would be the decibels on the freeway?
A. From a large truck operating at 15 meters it it 90 decibels, heavy, heavy
truck.
Q. From what distance?
A. 15 meters.
Q. 15 meters. That would be about 15 or 16 yards; Suppose you were 300-feet
away from that diesel?
A. It drops off rapidly; 10 decibels per 100 ft,
Q. That would come on down then to about 60.
A. About 60. That�s one of the reasons for getting back off the freeway is
the noise. That's one of the reasons.
Q. If one were 300 feet away in an airconditioned home with windows down and
the doors closed, would one be able to hear this particular rig operating on
this location?
A. It would be just about the level of a library.
Q. Library.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I thought they maintained real quiet in libraries where I used to go to
school. How about you all?
A. 35 decibels.
Q. 35 decibels. Then one would have no problem sleeping or living or listen-
ing to your TV or something like that, would they?
A. Shouldn't.
-10- June 20, 1974
Q. All right.
A. The heavy dense growth should muffle any noise that is produced 300 feet
away from heavy, dense undergrowth.
Q. Just the undergrowth alone'
A. Just the undergrowth alone.
Q. Are these motors muffled or not?
A. The best mufflers we can buy have been installed on these. I have the
word of the owner on this.
Q. Now, this isn't just some guess or an opinion of yours. You took a meter
A. Right.
Q. . . . .to measure the sound.
A. Yes.
Q. That's what I told you to do. I wanted facts. I told you I didn 't want
guessing, didn't I?
A. That's right.
Q. Now, how about the smoke coming from it? Were there big clouds of smoke
polluting the air where this rig was operating or not?
A. No, sir, no smoke.
Q. No smoke.
A. No dust; no smoke.
Q. No dust and no smoke. Do you have any reason to believe there would be
any dust or smoke from this drilling rig being located on this 3 .66 Acre tract
of land?
A. I do not.
Q. Operating day and night?
A. Right.
Q. Have you had some experience with living close to where they drilled an
oil well?
A. 250 feet; yes, sir.
Q. 250 feet. Where were you living at the time they drilled this oil well?
A. '915 East Lavaca Street in Beaumont.
Q. That 's right across the street from Lamar University' isn't it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did they drill that well, Doctor?
A. On the Campus.
Q. On the Campus. Was that well drilled right where McDonald Gym is now
located?
-11- June 20, 1974
A. That is approximately the spot.
Q. You were a professor at the University at that time.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how far was that well being drilled from Dr. John Gray's home west of
there, the President's home, I mean where Dr. John Gray actually lived there?
A. About 200 feet; about 150 to 200 feet 1 would judge.
Q. And how far was that well being drilled from the President's home of
Lamar University at the tame?
A. About the same distance.
Q. About the same distance. Now, was there any disturbance of the people ou
there when they drilled that well?
A. Not especially. We didn't have airconditioners.
Q. You didn't have airconditioners.
A. No. We had open windows.
Q. Open windows.
A. That's right. We had attic fans.
Q. You had attic fans.
A. Right.
Q. I bet those attic fans made almost as much noise as the rig, didn't they;
A. That's right.
Q. But anyway they were actually drilling on the University property, where
the McDonald Gym is now or there abouts.
A. Just about.
Q. And the neighbors were they disappointed in what happened out there, Doc-
tor?
A. We hoped they would get oil.
Q. They didn't get oil.
A. They didn't get oil.
Q. And that was the only real disappointment that you all had, wasn't it?
A. True.
Q. And youdidn't have any thick trees or growth or underbrush separating you
all from the rig and you did not have airconditioned homes at that time and ycu
made it all right and lived to testify today.
A. Sure did.
Q. Now, can you tell us something about the decibels of noise produced by C-I=
of these saws that's out there right where this very location is, in that vicin-
ity? There is construction going on out there and they have bull dozers opera-
ting out there, do they not?
A. Yes, sir.
-12- June 20, 1974
Q. And they have saws working.
A. Yes.
Q. What are the decibels turned up by those saws as they hum out there?
A. Sustained noise on those will be around 90 to 95 decibels.
Q. What distance?
A. Within five meters of the saw where one is building a house and sawing
lumber. It's right at the point where it°s annoying,
Q. How about the bulldozers operating out there clearing those roadways and
laying down roads?
A. Well, they are--I would say it is about the same as freeway traffic:
about 90 decibels, something like heavy-truck traffic, similar to that. They
are I believe D-8, D-9. I don't know. I didn't look at the power on those
machines but they have a blade on them using them for earth moving, diesels.
Q. Those pieces of equipment are out there operating.
A. Yes.
Q. And have been for a long time expanding that addition,
A. Right.
Q. And they are clearYig more roads and there are houses being built right
now.
A. Right.
Q. And you went out there and viewed them?
A. I did.
Q. And you took some pictures of the bulldozers out there operating.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now that bulldozer that was operating out there, was it in compliance
with the Environmental law?
A. No, sir.
Q. What was coming from that bulldozer operating out there?
A. It had black smoke emission.
Q. Did you see any smoke coming from this Big Six Drilling Rig No. 7 when
you saw it operating?
A. No sir,
Q. And you have pictures of this bulldozer with the black smoke coming from
it, do you not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How about the decibels from a motorbike as they rev them up and go by
your house; what sort of sound do you get on your porch say or in your house?
A. I judge you would get from about 75 to 90 decibels depending on where
you are located; whether you are riding it or whether you are adjacent to the
machine.
-13- Uune 20, 1974
And it ,. :%: h e some of the larger bikes will go up to a 100 decibels. And
1--he way- they have them muffled they may even go over that. if they donit have
mufflers on those bikes, these large Harley-Davidson would go way over a 100
decibe'ls. And they get to be ear-splitting as you well know.
Q, No-5 , Doctor, did you make some investigation with reference to the weight
of th" s rig as it would be brought in on the streets? Did you get the weights
on th_!s i-_!_g and the. truck?
A ha%ie al, !_ these weights from the public scales given to--as they
and he gave them to me. And I made some calculations
)A,n d e eevery piece of equipment has its weight here in this report. I
a Copy 9�:f this. And we have each machine with each motor and
ot pipe, with each tank, with each-everything as documented here.
Iin,,d a. weight certificate on each one of these as Phillip--
Q. A J r,I.qht Now,
fi,"Ach�, weacrlat per square inch -- well, wait a minute. This rig in on
a i s it not?
A,,
Q A Ir"r"tr'r. frame.
A. It 's on a frame much like a truck.
> C.I.- WI� 11 just drive the thing in there and set up the rig right there
kt)",)toz- frame, `,_-tself
A. r ight.
J�cw,? YClu sa,y it was near Silsbee when you saw it. Could it have gotten
to 11.1hat Tqi"thout going over the highway to get there?
Q Anfj�,, .r.`en I'Lt 's moved, it will be moved over the highway.
A,,
ou]_d J_t be moved into this location without damage to these streets?
A , s "_,%
Q- Gasr,11P question in your mind about that whatsoever?
'"low mucr we 'ght -will this rig and these pieces of equipment as they come
� 1'1,,,�-- on, tt,�cks, hr,:)w -much weight psi will they put on the surface of the
by calculation and depending on the amount of air in the tires
brcught in, between 400 and 1, 000 psi.
If"'hIch according to concrete strength would be 3 , 000 psi, So
-ZI—ty factor built into this thing.
ca.lcij -,ate, this on a load actual strength of 6, 000 lbs. we still have
br-L, II-_tc2L,,.r factor here.
the -breaking- strength of concrete we are still safe by a factor of
to seven units. So we have plenty of strength in the
plenty of strength in the concrete.
-14- June 20, 1974
And this is documented here at the City and the people who test the streets.
From these figures and from the weight of this equipment, it is public evidence
as to the amount of poundage he will have on the streets and the load-bearing
capacity of the street. _ -- -- -------
And I think this is for the Council 's consideration in this document here, too.
They can look it over.
Q. They are welcome to see your Environmental Impact Study.
A. They certainly are.
Q. We will introduce one. Just as well to do it right now, We introduce
Dr. Eads' Environmental Study.
Now, Doctor, after this rig is moved in, you say there will be no damage or harm
to the roads or the streets out there in this Addition in the City of Beaumont
by the moving of it.
A. That's right.
Q. Now, after it is moved in, will there be methods of containing the drilled
mud they call it as the drilling rig goes downs will there be methods to contain
that drilled mud?
A. Yes. All of the muds and all of the materials coming in and used in the
well coming out of the hole and going into the hole will be in tanks. And it
will be well down around all of the surfaces will not be allowed to drain off
into the ditches.
And we will look in on this daily to see that this is carried out as part of
our agreement. And we will oversee this as professionals to see that this is
carried on in a professional--like clean manner' not scattering this material
around and becoming polluted as far as water, air, noise, solid waste, the
whole bit.
Q. I ask you, Doctor, if you would monitor this as Environmental Special-
ist of this area. Do you monitor this operation to see there is no Environ-
mental disturbance with reference to smoke or noise or mud or mud or things
like that?
A. I will.
Q. And, as a Registered Environmentalist, you are obligated to do that. are
you not?
A. Right.
MR. ADAMS: I believe that's all. Thank you. Wait a minute. I would like him
to show these pictures if you don"t mind.
If you will turn off the main lights, I would like for the Council to see about
four pictures.
Q. Doctor, would you explain the pictures as they appear on the screen.
A. This is the entryway off of Stacewood Drive into the property itself
that is the 3.66 Acres of the drilling site. This is the entry off of Stace-
wood Drive. And the principals own this property and they will not tear up
other people's property getting in. This entryway is on their own site.
This is the land, you are looking perpendicular to it, the 60-ft. entryway there.
And these are the houses: one adjacent to the property and the houses across
the street from Stacewood Drive.
(Next picture: ) This is the dense undergrowth that you see in this area. And
walking back about 25 or 30 feet into this property is this thick, dense under-
brush of all varities. And it's very thick, like a jungle. With the color wide
open that's all the color I could get into it.
�1�� Tune 20, 1974
(Next film: ) This is standing looking up at the place. And I was standing try-
ing to see through the dense upper levels of the oak and some pine,
(Next picture: ) This is looking out into the same thing,' You see that this is
very densely populated. And 300 feet back in there it is impossible to see.
You have to clear this,, a little roadway to get into the property to the back
side of this 3 . 66 Acres.
(Next picture: ) And thatls the little black cloud there above the tractor that
is violating Regulation 2, smoke in particular of the Texas Air Control Baord,
Q. How far is that from the location itself?
A. This is north of the location. You are looking directly into the other
side of it, the 3 . 66 Acres.
MR. ADAMS: All right. I believe that "s all. Thank you. Shut it off.
MR. GREIG: Your Honor, to hold the continuity, may we ask Dr. Eads a few ques-
tions relating to the Environmental Agency?
MR. ADAMS: It's all right with us.
MAYOR: All right, sir.
MR. GREIG: My name is Carl Greig. And I live at 6765 Knollwood.
EXAMINATION OF DR. EADS BY M.R. GREIG:
Q. You said the drilling rig where you made the sound measurement the deci-
bel rating at 300 feet was 60 to 65. Is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are familiar, I am sure, with OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration.
A. I am.
Q. For those of you who are not, this is a federal agency which passes re-
gulations regarding to relating to workers * safety. Do you know what the OSHA
regulation is for noise level?
A. I do.
Q. You are the witness. Tell us.
A. O.K. OSHA will allow 90 decibels for eight hours.
Q. Could you extrapolate that to 24 hours?
A. But we are not--in other words, in coming on down, as it gets to 60 deci-
bels and 70 decibels, this is graduated in hours according to OSHA. But in
other words, we are not dealing --
Q. What is it for 60 hours? This will be operating around the clock in
other words as I understand it.
A. 60?
Q. or 60 decibels.
A. For 60 decibels I understnad there is no restriction on 60 decibels.
That's nominal. That is what you would expect from street noise. There is
no restriction on this.
-16- June 20, 1974
Q. I just point out. I don 't have those figures. All I am aware of is the
90-decibel rating. And there is talk of reducing that to 85 for an 8 hr. per-
iod. And these people will be exposed to it 24 hours a day. You talk about
the undergrowth and being indoors but I think we ought to keep that in mind.
A. Let me caution you. Now, 90 decibels is measured at very close to the
rig site itself, at less than. .
Q. My only point is--
A. . . . .a 100 feet.
Q. . . . .that the OSHA regulation is independent of distance. It's just an
average of 90 decibels. And I don't know whether your measurements included
the clanging of drilling pipes or whether it was� -
A. It was the noisiest noise I could hear.
Q. The point is 60 or 65 is below 90, but the 90 is based on eight hours.
And we live out there 24 hours a day.
A. Well, you won't be suffering that though.
Q. 65?
A. 65 is what - we have in this room about 45 to 50,
Q. I thought you said it was 65 at 300 feet.
A. Outside on the street level it 's about 65,
Q. Not too many of us like to live by the side of a street. There is one
other question I have. There are a number of questions related.
There is a well site I guess west of the newest street in Dowlen West. And
there is a pretty fair strip of land maybe a 100 yards wide that extends back
to Stacewood where there are no trees.
And, if you drive along Dowlen Road toward Parkdale Mall, there are a number
of well sites in that area. If you will notice that, there are a number of
dead trees around each of these sates. How can we be sure that this won't
happen here?
A. Well, you have your- -you are bound by every law in the country. And one
of the things that you can do is have the laws enforced that are on the books.
Q. These sites were bound by the same law, were they not?
A. As of that 1965-1972 Act, no. These were bound by certain laws worked
up by the Railroad Commission on the dumping of salt water. A lot of this
damage was done a long time before the present EPA was in effect. Now, acci-
dents do happen.
Q. Yes.
A. But at the peril of the man doing it. He is nearly automatically out of
business. The fine is so severe that he is cautious not to use any indiscreet
method.
At $10, 000. 00 a day or $20, 000. 00 a day, whatever the EPA Administrator would
car to give, it seems to be whatever the traffic needs to bear.
That 's what happens if something like this happens. If a spill occurs, it is
very, very expensive.
MR. GREIG: Thank you.
-17- June 20, 1974
MR. HOPKINS: Your Honor, may I say a word? My name is Richard Hopkins. I live
at 930 Norwood in Dowlen West.
As far as dead trees go, somebody told me that up here at the corner of Madrid
and Stacewood they had counted 20 dead trees and no where near an oil well.
As far as noise goes, that 90 decibels the witness mentioned there on making
the trip. Those trips don"t last long. And that"s if you're right there at the
rig floor, because I've been around too many rigs to know otherwise.
The rig when it is operating just the drilling itself will make fewer decibels
than that.
DR. EADS: Yes. You are speaking for the well, are you not?
MR. HOPKINS: Yes.
DR. EADS: Well, I want to be careful.
MR. HOPKINS: The idea this noise is going to bother anybody is highly over-
rated in my opinion.
DR. EADS: I agree.
MR. HOPKINS: And so I would like the people to understand when you are talking
about 90 decibels right at the rig during the trip, that"s not 24 hours a day.
That is just a few hours at a time. Thank you.
MR. ADAMS: If there are no further questions,, Doctor,, you may have a seat over
there. And I'll --
DR. EADS: Thank you.
MRS. KHOURY: May I ask one question, Mayor Ritter?
My name is Pat Khoury. I live at 845 Stacewood Drive. There is some confusion
in my mind. I thought this was a public hearing for people to come and hear
the evidence and express their opinion.
And, although I am sure we are all going to have a chance to express an opinion,
I would only like to satisfy myself in that because it is a public hearing, we,
as a community, have not brought a lawyer to, in a sense, represent us as
equally and as well as Mr. Adams is representing his case.
I would like to know now-, Does this mean this is our day in court for the be-
ginning and end of Justice? Is this the court decision or is there any recourse
to us after this.
I must say I give Mr. Adams and Lucas & Company a great deal of credit for know-
ing the law, and I will quote "pulling a fast one*, because this was only sup-
posed to be a public hearing.
What I'd like to know is, how do we have our day in court if this is an Execu-
tive Session in which the Council may act?
MAYOR: Well, as I stated, Ma'am, when we opened the meeting, it is a public
hearing. And all that is required as far as the Council is concerned, we will
hear both sides. And we will be here the rest of the night if that's what
it takes.
We will listen to every single person in this room at least once and maybe sev-
eral times.
MRS. KHOURY: But what I don't understand.
MAYOR: And I also said that there is no necessity, as far as the Council is
concerned, for anybody to be sworn in as witnesses.
_18- June 20, 1974
But the Applicants chose to swear their *s in and to conduct this, as you say, as
a court case.
I will refer to our City Attorney as to what your recourse is in our conducting
of the meeting.
MRS. HOURY: This can be a court without us being equally represented'
MAYOR,, That's a legal question and I 'll refer it to the City Attorney.
MR. a- ,,rauid say this, Mr. Mayor; that this is not a court. It is a he
ing before the City Council. As to the right of this lady or anyone else in
room to go to court, I think it would be hest to consult their own Attorney.
I t1hi k that there are laws available to protect people from nuisances, Zoning
violations And these are things that people can enforce. In this case, I
would ss g, est they contact their own Attorney.
MAYORS Well, the point I .rant to make, as far as the conducting of this hear-
ing, on the part of the Council, I don't know what else we can do.
we can't legally prohibit the Applicant from swearing in witnesses or present-
ing expert testimony before the Council . Is that correct, Mr.. Attorney:
MR. BALL.- I don't think that the Council has to permit the swearing of wit-
nesses. But I think that the Applicant certainly would have a right to pre-
sent any facts that he thinks relevant to the matter as well as do the people
opposed to the application.
MAYOR; Ma 'am, all the Council wants to do is have as fair a hearing "� and,
actually and technically I don't know that we are even required to hold a
hearing .before passing on this Application.
It ' s not in the Ordinance to do so. But in all fairness to both sides, we set
the hearing and set up public notice and had it advertised. But I see no other
way that we could be any fairer.
As far as your legal rights and litigation, if you don "t concur with the deci-
sion of the Council, then your recourse is to the courts as is the Applicant 's
recourse to the courts.
MR m 9�'P.L.L That is correct
MR. KHOURYs I'd like to ask Mr. Eads some questions, if it is possible to do
so.
MR. ADAMS: Dr. Eads.
MR. .HCURY: Dr. Eads. I apologize for mispronouncing your name. You stated
that roughly 300 feet from the drill site.
CITE CLERK: We need your name.
MR Kil � RY ® My name is Bruce Khoury. I live at 845 Stacewood Drive. And I am,
adjacent to the accessway to the drill site,
EXAMINATION CE DR. EADS BY MR. KHOURY:
Q. You stated that approximately 300 feet from. the drilling rig when it is
in operation the noise level will be 60 to 65 decibels, is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Not 45; not 36; 65,
A. Street-noise level, yes.
_19- June 20, 1974
Q. And that noise will go on as long as that drilling rig is in operation, is
that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. 24 hours a day. Do. you have any idea how long it takes a drilling rig?
is that five days, three days, one day?
A_, Seven, ten to 12 days.
Q. As many as 12 days?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Greig referred to an area off and behind Stacewood Drive--I am not
sure of the directions--where there were no trees and very little living vege-
tation.
And you testified you thought that well had been drilled before more recent
laws had come to pass. Do you know what caused the death of that vegetation
or the length of time it has been dead?
A. No, sir.
Q. We don't have an expert but I believe most people are familiar with the
fact a salt water gusher, so-called, was hit there. And it was salt water
that did the damage.
Can you guarantee that this same thing will not happen on this drill site?
A. No one can.
Q. You mentioned that the fine for this type of accident, should it happen,
is very severe and has been known to put people out of business.
is that fine so severe that it never happens?
A. No, sir.
Q. You mentioned that the accessway into this drilling site is owned by the
people who are proposing to drill there, and, therefore, no adjacent would be
damaged in obtaining access to the drill site, is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That accessway along with the woods to the particular location where the
drill will be set up is heavily wooded, is it not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That woods will have to be cleared, is that not correct?
A. The roadway will have to be cleared, yes.
Q. You mentioned that chain saws made about 90 decibels. My house is adja-
cent to that accessway. Did you notice it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far from those woods is it?
A. Let's see. Around 75 feet.
Q. It 's about 50 to 75. We measured on 62 depending upon where you cut the
trees down. However, how much noise would I have sitting there from those chain
saws and bulldozers and whatever other heavy equipment is used to clear that
accessway?
-20- June 209
A. No more than you 've already had.
Q. That accessway has not been cleared.
A. But other lands right around there have.
Q. They were not cleared when I purchased my house. I will also comment
that Mr. Randolph, who is here, is on the other side. Can you estimate how
far that accessway is from 855 Stacewood?
A. It is pretty close to the same as yours,
Q. And so he would be exposed to the same noise level.
A. Right.
MR. KHOURY: That's the only questions I have.
MR. ADAMS: Doctor, I might ask you this question: That removal of the trees
so the rig could have a roadway into the site would occur only during daytime
hours, would it not?
A. Yes.
MR. ADAMS: I think that's all . All right. Now, Mr. Willard Hall, please,
MAYOR: Just a minute, Mr. Hall. I think there is one more wanted to ask some
questions on our Environmental part.
MR. JONES: I am Bill Jones, 980 Stacewood Drive.
DR. EADS EXAMINED BY MR. JONES:
Q. Dr. Eads, how many degrees in Environmental Science did you say you have?
A. I have a Ph.D. in Chemistry and a Master "s degree ins chemistry; 25 years '
experience in Water and Air Pollution and ten publications,
Q. You all learn about roads and stuff like that, don 't you;
A. You learn about roads in Engineering. I am in charge of the Engineering
Department, too.
Q. Did I understand you correctly in saying that you would go out and see
that everything was taken care of?
A. I will inspect this every day according to what Mr. Adams has asked me to
do as a Supervisor Environmentalist.
Q. What assurance do we have you will do this?
A. I give you my word.
Q. Thank you. I 'm sure it 's --
A. I live here in this same town.
Q. Tell me this: What are you going to do if it is not conducted correctly?
A. I am going to tell them about it.
Q. Then what?
A. We will see if we can't get it fixed.
Q. What methods are used for that, sir?
-21- June 20, 1974
A. We use --
Q. How do you force their compliance is my question,
A. Well, their compliance will be enforced automatically, because the En-
forcement EPA official is in this town. And the Air and Water people are in
this town. And they will be watching, too.
A. Every day like you?
A. I'm sure. They seem to be everywhere.
Q. Did they shut the fella down that was gushing the smoke out of the D-7
that you took the picture of?
A. I didn't ask him. I didn't report him.
Q. I see. I see. Very interesting.
A. Very interesting.
MR. JONES: I have no more questions.
MR. MATHENY: I have some.
MR. ADAMS : Yes, sir.
MR. MATHENY: My name is Michael Matheny. I live at 740 Randolph Circle.
EXAMINATION OF DR. EADS BY MR. MATHENY:
Q. Dr. Eads, you told us you had some kind of license to be an Environmenta-
list, is that right?
A. Professional Sanitarian, 567 Registration. I can inspect Public Health
activities under this 44-
Q. Is that like dishes in restaurants and places like that? Is that what
we're talking about?
A. No. This is the Environmental phase of this. That 's the Sanitary phase
of the same Act. It "s passed under the same Act; the same as Professional
Engineers.
Q. You are a Chemistry Professor at Lamar by training, is that what you do?
A. Right. I am Director of Environmental Science and Professor of Chemistry.
Q. Are you the same Dr. Eads that originally did studies for Texas Gulf Sul-
phur on Pollution in the air in Lamar Addition in Beaumont, Texas?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you conclude it was polluting anything?
A. No, sir.
Q. You were hired by who?
A. I was working for the County. And I have been working for the area here
since 1940-50 -- 1950.
Q. Were you ever hired by any industry to --
A. I am Consultant for eight.
Q. For eight industries?
-22- June 20, 1974
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever come to the conclusion that any of these industries were
not polluting or causing any harm in the Lamar Addition?
A. We have taken the black smoke out of the skies.
Q. Have you ever come to the conclusion that any of these industries was
harming anything in Lamar Addition?
A. I don't think that's a fair question. You are way off the subject. I am
going to say we are talking about Stacewood.
Q. Well, what I am just trying to establish is --
A. My integrity, if you 're trying to attack my integrity, we 'll have my law-
yer work at that.
Q. No, sir. You are the one who is here. I am just trying to establish your
purpose of being here.
You are not really attempting to tell us that you are a complete expert that's
come out to punch in a computer and come out with something objective. You
were hired to come here and be an advocate, weren't you?
A. I was hired to bring truth to a situation.
Q. Were you hired to be an advocate to get an oil well in this particular
place?
A. In fact, that's exactly what I came for.
Q. And there is no question in your mind that an oil well there is a business
of some kind, is here?
A. I would say so, yes.
Q. It's not a residence, is itr it's not a family residence of any kind, is
it?
A. No. It 's a legitimate activity according to the deeds and records of that
property.
Q. For the purpose of the Council though it is a commercial business of some
king.
A. Yes.
Q. O.K. And any kind of human equipment from the best airplane to the Apollo
space craft or anything else we have that is made by human beings, something can
go wrong with it, can't it, just like the oil well that 's on fire now in the
middle of Galveston Bay.
A. Or the one in New Orleans,
Q. I didn't know that. There is one off New Orleans. And, if there 's one
there, it would be in close proximity to where other people lived.
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. And if the oil well dredged and caught fire to someone 's home, they would
lose their home then, wouldn't they?
A. Possibly.
MR. MATHENY: Thank you.
-23- June 20, 1974
EXAMINATION OF DR. FADS BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. Dr. Eads, the testimony you have given before this Council, is that the
truth?
A. It is.
Q. And, simply because you were employed to make an Environmental Study, did
not cause you to distort the truth.
A. No.
MR. ADAMS : That's all
(Willard J. Hall called as a witness on behalf of the Applicant, testified as
follows: )
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. Mr. Hall.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Give us your name, please, sir.
A. I am Willard J. Hall.
Q. What do you do, Mr. Hall?
A. I am in the Real Estate Brokerage, Real Estate Development and Real Es-
tate Appraisal business here in Beaumont.
Q. And how long have you been so engaged?
A. For 27 years since 1947 .
Q. Give the Council the benefit of some of your experience and training in
this field.
A. I'm a member of the Beaumont Board of Realtors and served as present
Director for a number of years. I have been a State Director. I have completed
Appraisal courses at the University of Houston, Texas Christian University,
Southwest Legal Foundation at SMU in Dallas, the University of Oklahoma.
I'm an approved instructor in vocational education' and for the last 14 years
conducted a course in real estate appraising at Lamar College or Lamar Uni-
versity.
I have lectured on real estate appraising to the Texas Attorney General 's
seminars and on the Real Estate Caravan throughout the State of Texas.
I have been approved as a field appraiser by the federal government, Veterans
Administration, U.S. Internal Revenue Service, Attorney Generals office, Texas
Liquidator, the nine surrounding counties, six school districts; eight or ten
different cities, in Beaumont; many mortgage lenders such as banks, savings
and loans companies, life insurance and institutional lenders,
I have developed five subdivisions within the City of Beaumont and live in one
which I developed, Milner Place, which goes from Howell Street west to the
Hillebrandt Drainage Ditch. And I live on the corner of Belvedere and Howell
Streets.
I have completed over 6, 000 appraisals and studies. And I am associated with
my brother who has completed approximately 4, 000 appraisals and studies. I am
a Special Commissioner under the Texas Veterna 's Land Grant Board. I have been
an Advisor on the South Park Equalization Board for 14 years and served as Chair-
man of the Equalization Board for 14 years of the South Park Independent School
District.
-24- June 20, 1974
Q. Mr. Hall, did I ask you to make a study to determine whether or not the
drilling of an oil well at this location in the H. Williams Survey in Jefferson
County for which Application for Permit has been filed. . . .
A. Yes, sir.
Q. . . . .to determine whether or not the drilling of that well would in any-
way depreciate the value of surrounding property?
A. Yes, sir, you did.
Q. Have you made such a study?
A. Yes, sir, I have.
Q. Would you give us the benefit of your study and your opinion.
A. Well, the first thing I did was to go on the property itself . I took
photographs of the property which I have in my report of the property surround-
ing it.
I went to the City and received the latest map showing the development in and
around the property that is on the east and north side of the drill site.
Q. Would you like to put that up here?
A. Yes. (Exhibiting map) This is an official map of the City of Beaumont,
It is the latest one they had and it shows Stacewood as being developed and
dedicated with the access to this drill site and the drill site itself ,
I have put on this map in and around and through the area that I looked at
where there are known drill sites. And some of them contain wells.-,., Some of
them do not contain wells. But they are available.
There is a drill site. They are in yellow and shown in this area that 's north
of Calder Avenue and west of Thomas Road. I also have a map that-r
Q. How many such drill sites are there?
A. These are the only ones that were known to me. I didn't do any research.
And I see there are three, six, nine, 12, 13 drill sites inside of the developed
area. There are a considerable number of oil wells throughout the northwest
end section which I haven't attempted to show,
I have shown that on a map here that I had in my office (exhibiting another map) ,
This is the map which shows the subject property in green although it does not
show the development up to it, as shown by the City map, I did not have a com,
bination map.
But this shows outlined and circled in red the drill sites and the wells in this
section or that have been in this section.
Now, these wells are dated. And some of them go back into the early days. I
am sure that some of them have been abandoned and plugged up. But these wells
have been in and around the northwest section of Beaumont for that period of
time.
I had this map already in my files. And then I acquired from the City the
latest maps that have been approved but not put on the City map property them-
selves.
And it shows Monterrey Street which is not shown on any map two blocks over from
Stacewood. Brandywine is one block west of Stacewood. And it shows Stacewood'
Chatwood, Norwood Drives as they have been developed like rings on a tree out
toward the west.
At the present time coming from Major Drive down Evangeline Lane, there is
Oaklane apartment. Weaver Drive is being opened toward the east and another
street is being opened to the south.
_25n June 20, 1974
There is an existing oil well and tank shown. And I am pointing to between Oak-
lane and Dowlen West Addition.
However, when I was there, the well is setting there. And the rig is there.
The pump is there but it is being dismantled. And obviously it is either going
to be re-worked or it 's being abandoned. But it has been there obviously a
number of years. The tanks are rusty. But it's in there.
And Brandywine Street, as soon as it is developed on down and being cleared--
there are only two lots on each side that have been opened. And it 's being
opened on down toward the drill site as is Monterrey. I would say that this
area here is practically a 100% built--up, 99% built-up through Stacewood.
There is a considerable amount of building going on for today's building mar-
ket along Brandywine. And there are some starts of houses and houses being
constructed along Monterrey at this present time.
After I located the wells, the question was posed as to whether or not a well
or a drilling site had a diminuting or a damaging or loss in market value ef-
fect on contiguous or adjacent homes.
The next thing I did is I went into my card file which since 1957 we have kept
all sales of all properties that have sold in Jefferson County and we have re-
corded them as to subdivision. And we use them as to our reference as to the
sale prices of these houses. And we keep a continual study of sales prices of
homes.
The first homes I looked of were those that were pretty-well established
homes. For example, there is a well right behind Dr. Draper 's house in Audu-
bon Place. And right behind my brother Phil 's house in Willowick I ran some
sales in there and found that there had been no diminution or loss in value
because of the proximity of that well.
As a matter of fact Dawndale is developing and building some new houses on the
corner of Dowlen Road as it curves and loops around at the present time adja-
cent to Audubon Place.
I ran the records on original sales and resales. And I found no diminutiog
effect.
I then went into Tangledahl. And down on Tangledahl Lane I found houses backed
up to within 150 feet to an oil well which incidently has recently been shut
down. And I found no sales in the past when it was operating that would indi-
cate any diminution in value due to the proximity of that well.
I went back around. And on Howell Drive just south of Regina Howell School
there is a well that lies 150 feet just behind the last house on the left as
you go toward the school.
I ran sales up and down Howell Street. We appraised a lot of those for trans-
ferees from Sun Oil Company. And we found no diminution due to proximity of
the well.
Coming around to Derby Lane there is an oil well-rand I have photographs in my
report. There is an oil well approximately 50 feet behind the back property
line of houses in Block 12 of Thomas Road Addition on Derby Lane.
I have those sales as well as those on the north end of Chevy Chase. I have
sales and re-sales. And I find there has been no diminution as a result of - -
I came on around next to Dan Collie's house, which is a large home on an acre-
and-a-half. There is an oil well and drilling site on Block 6. And I found
no diminution before and after those period of years. And I have the sales
here.
I went down on the end of Edson Drive. There is a well there that is screened
by one row of Pine trees. Right on the end of Edson Drive; you stop your car
and walk around the corner and there it is.
,26•- June 20, 1974
You can't see it from there. But the house on the corner was John Fulbright's
house that re-sold at considerably more than its original price in keeping
with inflation and making allowances for general inflation.
The same is true on down on Lucas Drive. And these are residential houses in
the west end. I did not go beyond itl didn't go up here north, because I
like these older houses are on Folsum Drivel and in Dawndale wouldn't have the
characteristics that these homes have both in value and the fact that this is
a new and rapidly developing subdivision,
After recording and seeing this I felt it would have to bey-I would have to go
further. And I checked with all the taxing authorities in this area to see if
they had ever made a discount or reduced the evaluation on any house due to a
complaintant or from a complaintant who complained that his house was diminu
by the proximity of a drilling site or an oil well.
And I found by talking to all the Tax Assessors-Collectors and assistants, tI
there had never been in the history of all these oil wells, any reduction in
value due to the proximity of a drilling site, or an oil well because it hadr
been reflected in the market place,
I felt that if they felt it was this way--and they are under protests on tax
valuations continuously--that I would go a step further,
I checked with seven or eight of the leading appraisers in this section that
praised approximately 900 of all the houses that are financed : Savings and Lo
or mortgage lenders, to see if they had ever in any of these places diminuted
gave an extraneous economic depreciation to any house because of the proximity
of a drilling site and/or oil well.
And none of the people I discussed and many of them had been in the business
nearly as long as my brother or I, have ever complained they could not if their
memory served the, could not from their own certain knowledge ever deduct it or
detract it or reduced the value of any house due to the proximity of drilling
sites or oil wells.
I then felt, well, if this is true, if this is what they"re telling me: that
there is no diminution in these values, I wanted to go and find out from Mrs.
Hargraves how many Permits had been issued since this Permit Law had been passed
in 1951.
But first I wanted to go back to 20 years and we pushed a little and got her to
go back later to 1951, 23 years.
And in the report that she gave me in the past 23 years there have been 183
drilling applications requests and her records show and reflect none had been
denied or turned down since 1951 .
Q. Except this one.
A. Well, I don't know about that one. I didnit know about this one. You
told me this one had been turned down before, I am just going by what the facts
are by what's on the records.
I would have to conclude that based on actual sales and re-sales of property
which is the test of market value. We can sit and speculate all day. But on
the sale and the re-sale of a house, I have found no sale anywhere within this
west-end section Beaumont, this quadrant, of any house that was diminuted be-
cause it had to take a reduced value because of the proximity of an oil well or
a drilling site.
I will go a step farther, I developed Milner Place. And right on the corner
of Milner Place and Hillebrandt Bayou there to the east on the south side are
three lots. I sold one to Mr. Joe Bob Kinsel, one to Dr; Charles Adkins and
one to Bobby DuBose.
And each of those houses run from $75, 000. 00 to $95, 000.00 in cost. And each
of those houses back up to a drill site. And I would think that--and they knew
it was a drill site and we told them it was a drill site, and explained to them
what a drill site was.
-27- June 20, 1974
And I would think they would have been reluctant to build such a house for their
home, certainly at that amount of money, if they felt that a drill site would
have had any diminuting effect on their home.
Q. Your records actually reflect that many houses have drilled wells within
a 100 feet of them.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that those houses have later been sold and the value and the sale
price was higher than the man who had sold the house paid for it when he bought
it.
A. Yes, sir. But then that "s the case all over. We try to use this incre-
ment due to inflation and replace the cost as a guideline. And it indicates
within that same increment bracket.
Q. Now, you have one map here with red circles, numerous of them. Did you
happen to count. . . .
A. No.
Q. . . . .how many of those red circles--
A. No, I did not.
Q. Can you take, a glance at it and estimate how many of those red circles
there are that indicated oil wells;
A. Oh, probably 75. Of course, this goes east to Lucas Drive and a little
bit beyond up in the upper right-hand corner. It goes in behind Bellas Hess.
And it doesn't show the freeway for this portion of it.
Q. Your testimony pertains not to the entire City of Beaumont but it pertains
to just this particular quadrant and locality,
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The west end.
A. Yes, sir.
MAYOR: Yes, ma'am.
MRS. KHOURY: Could I ask another question?
MAYOR: This gentleman here.
MR. ADAMS: I will hand the Council his report. And you will find in there pic-
tures. Now, will you explain the pictures that you have in your report.
CITIZEN: Mr. Mayor, is it time for me to ask a question?
MAYOR: Let him finish his presentation.
MR. ADAMS: This will give you an idea of the pictures he is talking about. Let
me give it to the other Councilmen.
Now, would you explain the pictures beginning with the first set of them.
A. The first one is looking north, actually a little northwest along Stacewood
Khoury's house, 840 I believe it will show.
And then the area of the 60-ft. access to the drill site and then a house at 860.
don't have the numbers here. But it is shown on the left-hand corner of the
_;ap.
-28- June 20, 1974
The lower photograph shows a picture looking directly into the front of that en-
tranceway.
Then 1 went north and looked back at it. And you can see the 60-ft. entrance
between 845 and 865..
Then I moored on down to Sharon Circle. Sharon Circle is just two lots to the
north of this entrance in the drill site, And it goes back, And you can see
behind the house in the corner, the drill site and the density of it as you
look towards the southwest.
And then I went into Sharon Circle and got a picture between these two houses.
There was the Hinote house as T recall , 1 don"t know the other 's name.
You can look between the houses. And the area would be directly behind that
approximately 300 feet back of that.
Then 1 drove around the area that is not shown on the front of this map to Bran-
dywine and Madrid. There was a photograph that Dr. Eads had. And it showed
the cleared area.
There are only two lots on each side of Brandywine being developed. And directly'
toward the center of the picture, toward the backend is the drill site that
we're talking about.
1 went around Monterrey and this abandoned well 1 got behind it T guess the
pump is still there and got behind it and took a picture looking toward the
east. And that's Monterrey Street in front of the house facing you.
Then 1 went around on Monterrey Street and took a picture looking toward the
west. And you can see the slab of a house being poured right now and the oil
well and the tank behind it. And that's looking west at new construction of
Lot 6. And 1 think that "s lot G. T could be wrong about the lot but there is
an oil well at the rear of the house.
MR. WILLIAMS: What is the approximate distance of the slab from the well, Mr.
Hall?
MR. HALL: Well, there is a street being cl.,eared ,,uld be a 125 -ft. lot.
I would say from where I was standing to th e vveli was about 300 feet to the
oil well maybe not that far from where T"m standing.
Now, from the back of the property line it would probably be 150 feet to the oil
well.
Then, you can't tell this too welly but 1 went across the street to a house un-
der construction. And looking through, you can see through the trees across
Monterrey Drive at the oil well. In fact, that white thing you can see through
the trees is a tank, probably the storage tank for that well.
The next page if you will follow me, you are looking at southwest Howell Street,
the oil well behind that, that "s the last house before you get to Regina Howell
School. And the oil well is approximately 150 feet behind that property line.
You can't find it because the road goes in and then it turns to the right. And
you can't---there's no way x could have gotten a picture of this house and show-
ing the oil well, because that's where it is.
The bottom picture is Derby Lane. And the house on the right is a house that be-
longed to Randy McAlphin. He sold it to Fox and Fox subsequently sold it. And
each time it sold for more money.
And right back 50 feet from the back property line, if you will look right in
the middle of the eave of that light--roofed house to the right of the photo-
graph there is an oil well.
And then 1 got up close on the next picture and took a picture of that house
with the oil well less than 50 feet over behind the fence on Derby Lane.
-29 - June 20, 1974
Then I drove down this is the Fulbright house on the end of Howell . And right
behind that trailer is a single row of trees. You drive or you can just walk
around those trees and down below is the well itself.
This well was not pumping at the time. It is there and I assume it probably is
gonna be shut down.
At the time of these sales this well was here. And if you look at this road
here you can see it goes right on around that little .row of pine trees and just
on the other side is this house. It's just about 150 feet from this house on
the corner of Barton and Edson Drive.
Edson Drive houses here. And then Thomas Road houses back up to these houses.
This is another view of the oil well where you can see the last house on Edson
Drive on the right by looking through it. I was able to get both on that pho-
tograph. And that must be 250 feet from this house to this oil well.
The next page is an active well. I went out to listen to it and took a picture
of it. It"s on Lucas. There's a big 2-story white house across the street from
it. It must be 200 feet from the property line, maybe 250 from the house.
I just went there to observe i
MR. ADAMS: I believe that's all.
MAYOR: One question: On the check that you asked the City Clerk to do for you
and the number of Permits since 1951.
MR. HALL: Yes, sir.
MAYOR: Did you ask her to check for you whether or not said permits had been
denied or not denied?
MR. HALL: Yes, I asked her if there was any evidence. She said that obviously
these had been granted because the money had been received. I mean they had
been issued; the permits had been issued.
We at first wanted to know. They are first supposed to file a Plug permit,
aren't they, a permit to plug? And she mentioned that. But we decided that
that wouldn't be necessary.
CITY CLERK: I gave you a list, Mr. Hall, of permits that have been issued since
1951. To give you a list of applications considered not grantedl I would have
to search the Minutes. And I didn't do that.
MR. HALL: Oh, well, then I don't know of any. Then I 'm in error. I thought
you were giving me the ones -R
CITY CLERK: These are only the Permits that have been issued.
MR. HALL: Then I don't know that there had ever been any denied obviously. I'm
sorry. I thought these were ones that had been applied - Applications that
had been filled in.
CITY CLERK: They were. And Permits were issued on those. Those are records
on wells where the Applicants have been given permission to drill and operate
a well.
MR. HALL: All right.
CITY CLERK: In some of those will be plugging reports,
MR. HALL: Yes.
CITY CLERK: And some of them may still be active.
MR. HALL: Yes. I didn't know that there would be any�Rl thought that you would
have indicated if there was money paid in for a Permit and then the Permit denied.
MR. ADAMS : it would be refunded, wouldn"t it?
CITY CLERK: It would be refunded. But those records-the file that I have would
not reflect that. It would be in the Minutes where the Application would have
to be denied by the City Council. I didn't search the Minutes for that.
MR. HALL: Well, then my report stands corrected in that regard. I don't think
it would have any bearing on my conclusion, the fact that they have or have not
denied any.
I though that you would have indicated --
CITY CLERK: I 'm sorry. I didn't know you wanted that.
MR. HALL: Well, that's all right. You didn't have time to do it anyway,
MR. ADAMS: I have no further questions.
MAYOR: Yes, sir. I believe there was a question of Mr. Hall.
MR. GIBBS: I am Charles Gibbs. I live at 830 Stacewood Drive.
-31- June 20, 1974
MR. HALL: You live right across the streer I think,
MR. GIBBS: I am in the insurance and real estate business and have been for
the last 15 years. I would like to ask a few things here.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. GIBBS:
Q. Mr. Hall, I assume you were paid by the Applicants also.
A. Not yet.
Q. You will be. Do you anticipate getting paid?
A. I do. I do. I intend to tender thee, a bill . I am on overtime now.
Q. Mr. Hall, would you say a commercial area placed in a Residential Zone
would enhance the property values of the surrounding neighborhood?
A. Yes, sir. In many instances, a properly designed commercial area has to
do with conveniences. And convenience centers will enhance the surrounding
area today.
Q. In other words, if Zummo put their commercial establishment in our resi-
dential area, this would enhance--
A. Zummo*s meat packing?
Q. Right. This would enhance -,?
A. I don't think that justifies an answer,
Q. Do you think something such as this that has the same smell or odor or
something placed in the neighborhood?
A. I am not gonna discuss a meat-packing place in this area.
Q. Well, this is a commercial, establishment,,
A. What is?
Q. Both of them,
A. No.
Q. What you are talking about and --
A. No. I am talking about a properly�designed convenience center that would
serve the residents of an area enhances a residential section.
I think there was a time when Woodland Acres failed as a successful development
because they had no convenient stores available to their residents. You had to
drive 10 miles to get a loaf of bread.
Your question I think was and I believe I answered it, if properly designed, it
will enhance a neighborhood for a commercial. Now if you are speaking of Indus-
trial or Zummo Meat Packing I think this is ridiculous.
Q. In relation to the drill site and so forth maybe you should give us a
short resume here on how Spindletop oil field enhanced residential dwellincxg
in that particular area?
A. Well, it does not.
Q. I understand it takes about 20 to 30 years for an oil field to lay waste
to the area around it.
A. I don't know where you got that information.
-32- June 20, 1974
Q. Well, Mobil Oil puts it o your , creej.s.
A. I wouldn*t know anything about that.
Q. Are you familiar with the Lowry Addition in South Park?
A. No, I am not.
Q. This is in close proximity to drill sites and Spindletop Oil Field. This
addition here suffered deterioration and could not fill their lots with houses,
simply because of this heavy industrial , comw,,ero:gal area that was in close
proximity to oil wells and drill sites
Actually I would say an area which I ;ire ,,,j up in ,-A.rollnd South Park out there,
Any how these people out there were con-l',
-Vall_�y Ln, close area with the Spindle-
top oil wells as they came in. And dLr.,,nj t a,ar the trucks which drew the
oil from the area out there, it deter iora bEd the en�tlre -- or obliterated the
entire countryside there,
Later on I worked for Texas Gulf Sulphur there. And we were in close proximity.
I was still living out there.
When the south wind blew, from the oil field across South Park -- the only time
you ever knew there was a. norther in was whenever you didn 't have this smell,
A. Now, you get the paper mill.
Q. Or sometimez z,,jjrno,,
A. I don't.
Nevertheless, no one or no real estate agent in this town can say that an
oil well does not deter ioralze real estate in this town, because, 1, of course,
I sold my house in that end of town.
I am not saying -my house was in a disastor area in South Park whenever I moved
to the west end. But if uiy 'house were in the west end compared to the oil field
to the south here, my ho- se would have appreciated a great deal more than it
appreciated when I lett
A. If you will come and look at this map.
Q. The biggest problem we have in the south end, of course, is the oil fields'
A. You have no pr(,,_f of that.
Q. We are surrounded by oil fields. If any member of the Council, I will go
out there with them any time. And I'll let you do the driving. And I 'll take
you into those areas v&re the oil fields has laid waste.
I 'll tell you what : When 1 was a Texas Gulf Sulphur, we tried to plant grass
on top of what is t nown as Watermelon Hill.
And we couldn't get --- we fertilized the grass seeds. We couldn't get the grass
to grow out there, And this was a 100% fertility grass seed.
I am sure that it will take a while and maybe a blowout or two, to maybe obli-
terate the vegetation etc, in the west end. Now, they can't say that this can"t
be done, because in 1953 at Texas Gulf Sulphur we had a tremendous blowout .
took seven days to oar, it out. And there's nothing around there that will glow.
It was completely obliterated.
Also, I understand there is only a million-dollar Bond put up for any type of
destruction in this area. 'Now a million-dollar bond might have been fine say
10, 15 or 20 years ! ago when a house sold for half what it is selling for now
But our houses are worth more.
-33- June 20, 1,974
A million-dollar bond will maybe cover a few houses in this area. Now, accord-
ing to your Environmentalist in a blowout such as they had in Galveston Bay
there, you can reap between 80 to 100% destruction within a 6000-ft. radius.
In other words, the houses from Dowlen Road in an area of 6,000 feet would al-
most go to Major Drive and would reap between 80 and 100% damage.
Now, according to the damages from the well that blew out yesterday, the windows
from Texas City would rock and some of the windows were broken.
Now, I am sure that this would enhance property values in our area, But I can"t
see how. There's no way.
Now, that -- I am sure whenever you have paid people come before you to do a
job, I am sure they are doing this in the best interests of the people they
represent.
But there must be, out of both of our witnesses here, there must be some things
that they see that would be objectionable.
I have heard nothing but the very best conditions arisings how our real es-
tate would be improved; how we could go to sleep in a library, etc. But I don't
understand really how our real estate values would be increased.
Also, support area: For instance, drill stems or drill pipes are the very
heaviest type iron or pipe that you can produce on American market unless you
go into your heavy, heavy industrial. But your drill stem does not come in
just a couple of pipes.
Whenever they bring this big support-stuff in a 16-wheel truck, for instance,
one lead of drill stem can break a 16-inch block of concrete whenever it
passes over the concrete, I understand the normal street is about anywhere
from six to eight inches.
The drilling equipment here is very likely on balloon tires, But once you hav
your support material passing over your streets such as this.
Not only that, occasionally people park cars an the street during visitation,
etc. How are these 16-wheel trucks going to get -- if four cars are parked at
the entrance, on both sides of the entranceway to this, how are these 16-wheel
support trucks going to go 1'n this area without scraping or tearing up a car
parked on the street.
Granted there are Ordinances where you cannot park overnight there or areas
where you have visitation privileges out there.
Of course, I would hope that theCouncil would take all of these things into con-
sideration also: An air gap where these big support machineries and bull-dozers
would have to go in -there, etc. and clear these areas out in the drilling area.
And, of course, , I feel like we don't have proper representation such as the gen-
tlemen sitting in front of us here. They have their lawyers, etc. , who are
very apt, etc. But 1 feel that the Council here will give the people in our
area at least the proper benefit of the doubt.
MR. ADAMS: Mr. Gibbs, might I ask you a question, sir?
MR. GIBBS: Yes, si.r.
MR. ADAMS: Do you have any particular expertise in environmental studies?
MR. GIBBS: In environmental stud-Ates?
MR. ADAMS: Yes.
MR. GIBBS: Only what I've read. I have --
MR. ADAMS.- Have you studied or are you a licensed Environmentalist or any-
thing like that?
-34- June 20, 1974
MR, GIBBS: No, sir. I have 16 years of experience with Texas Gulf Sulphur. We
took the sulphates from the river bottom and _-
MR. ADAMS: I am just asking you about your expertise. Do you have any kind of
Environmental license or training or anything like that? Just answer "yes" or
"No".
MR. GIBBS: Is this cross examination?
MR. ADAMS: Well, now, you purport to testify.
MR. GIBBS: Ive only had experience in this area but no license, etc.
MR. ADAMS: Are you a resident appraiser pf -same kind, licensed resident ap-
praiser, a senior resident appraiser or something like that?
MR. GIBBS: I can appraise.
MR. ADAMS: I am asking you have you studied and have you the background and
the licenses to practice?
MR. GIBBS: Real estate?
MR. ADAMS: Yes, an appraiser.
MR. GIBBS: Not on the same scope Mr. Hall Has.
MR. ADAMS: That's all.
MR. GIBBS: On the same scope there I have appraised for people who come to me
to make appraisals in my business. I do make appraisals for real estate brokers.
MR. ADAMS: Your only expertise, as I understand it, is that you have a license
to see insurance, is that right?
MR. GIBBS: Well, sometimes that's in doubt.
MR. ADAMS.- For the record --
MAYOR: I believe there's a lady that requested first.
MR. ADAMS: May 1, for the recrod, I want to object and move that his testimony
or statement be excluded. He is Just giving us his gross opinion and is no
expert at all in any field.
MRS. KHOURY: I am not an expert in any field
MAYOR: Just a minute.
MR. WALL: I think, Mr. Mayor, the Council can consider this. I don"t see that
there is any conclusion that the Rules of Evidence apply in a situation such
as this.
MAYOR: Yes, malam. Could we have your name again for the record?
MRS. KHOURY: Yes, Pat Khoury. I just ask a lot of questions.
In Tangledahl and Edson Drive and Regina Howell, we are relatively new to the
area. I do not know which carte first: the oil well or the Zoning thing. I
would like to know from you which came first in those areas, because well I
would just like to know if the people in Tangledahl for instance built their
houses and the oil well was there and pumping and that sort of thing and they
had a choice or if the oil well was there first and the Zoning law was like
changed, so you could put residential areas or if the residential area was
there and they just by-passed it,
-35- -june 2o ,
4
MR. HALL: Well, C -Al wells were there before the development. And the de-
velopers bought the land and paved the streetsl brought all these utilities
in and built houses, some speculative houses. The wells were there at the time.
And then the market came out and saw the house and decided to buy it or not to
buy it.
MRS. KHOURY: Right. But when the people bought the houses had the Zoning or-
dinance been changed or did that land remain residential?
MR. HALL: Yes. I think Zoning was put in --
MR. ADAMS: Forty-six
MR. HALL: Fifty-five and that pre-dates Thomas Road Addition.
MRS. KHOURY: O.K. The other question I want "Co ask is the Section of Dowlen
West on Stacewood Drive `gas that zoned residential before the first oil well
was put in?
MR. HALL: No, I think the oil well that I saw that I have in here was there
when it was a mass of woods.
MRS . KHOURY: Then it was zoned res-4
MR. HALL: No, it was zoned R-1. L �,h`nk the original zoning on all undeveloped
areas was zoned R-1 or R-1 (a) on the ricultural aspect of it.
And it was R-1 from the time -Nrent into effectl everything from Dowlen
Road west.
MRS. e?
KHOURY: And does R-1 mean Y- an have a residence and an oil well side
by sid 1,
MR. HALL: Yes. See, from What 3J. iranerstand you can have a residence. But you
cant' have any other type of use.
MRS. KHOURY: 0. K. Now, the only tkiing I would like to say is my own opinion.
It 's not clear. That is the probe d, If I had a choice, I would not build my
house alongside the oil well, I vrou_'d personally not want an oil well, a Zum-
mo factory, a grocery store or a,1.,,y-thinq in my backyard;
MR. HALL.- I wouldn't eit.her,
MRS. KHOURY: Thank you for answering I my questions.
MR. HALL- It's gonna be 311 feet behind your property line and I don't feel
like it's gonna injure it.
MAYOR: Is it possible that the well she had reference to and the zoning coming
in later, would that technically be a non-conforming use? Maybe that's the
point she was making.
MR. HALL: I don't know. I don't now that Ordinance -- I will have to go
to the City Attorney or somebody that. . . .
MAYOR: If it is though that 's --
MR. HALL: . . . .becuase I don'il-, know how that is affected',' But I do know that
many of these Permits were gran-l-ed In this area after it was zoned R-l (a) .
MRS. HO R` That's the whole po-tritt.,
MR. HALL: Many of them were granted 1.n this area after -- you can look at the
dates -- after this area was zoned R-1, Now, I donit know how this came about.
And I don't know what vehicle or mechanics brought that about.
MAYOR: All right.
-36- June 20, 1974
MR. MATHENY.- My name is Mike Mathany. I still live at 740 Randolph Circle.
Mr. Hall, so that we can get it all straight.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. MATHENY:
Q. You are not telling this Council that in the event they allow a Permit
on this specific spot that the surrounding property is going to be enhanced
A. No. I just said there wasn't any evidence of any diminution.
Q. The phrase you have normally used throughout this hearing is, has there
been a reduction in the fair market value of that specific piece of property,
don't you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then you proceed to find comparable sales of someone else that had a
house in a similar neighborhood with the same square-footage, brick veneer,
2-bedroom, what-not, don't you?
A. That's on a comparison basis. What I was looking for was to see-well, I
wasn't really looking for same classification of house, the semi-elite type of
house. And I went over into areas that I thought had the same classification
that are similar to these areas.
Q. Were you really able to find one single comparable sale where a house
was built and subsequently an oil well was erected?
A. "N'So.
Q. So your testimony, if we 're talking about the Rules of Evidence and in
court, you don't have any comparable sales. . .
A. No.
Q. . . . .to show a reductlon, And that's why we talked about diminution in•
stead of fair market value,
A. We are talking about fair market value, fair market value before or fair
market value after. But now I wasn't able to find in any instances where a
well was drilled within Close prcximity of a home after it was built and the
home as sold before and aft _ But I was able to -find here and they have all
been tagged.
Q. Houses that were built after the -teell was there?
A. I went across the street. And I went down the street. And I found these
houses that had sold and re-sold and got the-in all here,
Sold and resold and I measured the percentage of increase of original sales vs.
the second the second and the third sale. And I went down the line in order to
find if, in the mind of the purctaser, he would have depreciated from extran-
eous reasons, This is called eccnomic depreciation. These values--
Q. I understand what you said,,
MR. ADAMS : Let the witness finish.
MR. HALL- That's all right
Q. (By Mr. Matheny) I und,erstzLnd what you said in brief summary.
A. All right.
Q. But that was reflected in whatever the original price of the house was,
wasn't it?
-37- June 20, 1974
A. Yes.
Q. And that was reflected if it was diminished because there was an oil well
there anyway, wasn't it?
A. No. But it wouldn't have been diminished, because in my investigation
was, in talking to these builders that originally built them, that they had no
more problem in selling a house in the instance of Mr. McAlphin "s house -- I
talked to the builder about that. He sold that and got as much money for that
house as if he had built it three blocks away.
I investigated this because I wanted to find out because I felt like that might
be a very valid question.
Q. But there is no question, you were unable to find a comparable situation.
A. I did find comparable situations.
Q. You were unable to find a comparable situation with the specifics that we
have right here where the house was there and then a well was built later.
A. I don't want to appear argumentative. But here 's the case. Here 's the
facts.
Q. Just answer the question.
A. Mrs. Khoury owns a home. She bought this home. And if this home she has
increases on the basis of 10 to 12 per cent a year at the rate we're going, And
if they put this well back here. And if she wanted to see the house--didn't have
to--and they found somebody to buy it. And, if her house brought eight to 120
more money after the well was there than she paid before the well was there;
then, that' s a comparison, Isn't it, if the house down the street or across the
street brought eight to 12% more providing all other things are equal? That is
the comparison that I was looking for.
And I found sales and re-sales and sales again.
Q. I thought you had already answered this once" And I was just trying to
make it clear. %
A. I did not find any that had :peen sold after a well had been put in, no,
Q. The next question that I have: Is it not recognizable--T don't know whe,
then you but you all brought up the damages.
Isn't it a recognizable measure of damages when you 're testifying in court, for
instance, the close proximity of a proposed gas line reduces the fair market
value of surrounding property because of the legitimate fear of land owners
and prospective purchasers?
A. No, sir,
Q. I beg your pardon.
A. No, sir.
Q. Has that not been thrashed out all the way to the Supreme Court as of
last week?
A. I understand that there is a bulletin in just as there is on drilling
sites : That the VA and the FHA will not make a loan with reference to any
house that is within 300 feet of a drilling site, not an oil well, a drilling
site.
And I think there is a new regulation 'that VA has not sent me that has to do
with high-pressure gas lines. Now, Beaumont operates under high-pressure gas
lines and I don't know where they distinguish this.
I am sure whenever the Bill comes out, it will say whether it's transmission
lines or pressure regulated. I don't really know.
-38- June 20, 1974
Q. Would you say this oil well that is going to be there after it is completed
that is not a residence, that comes within R-1?
A. I don't know this mechanic. I know that they have issued all of these
permits in the R-1 area. But I don't know the mechanics of it.
Q. In other words, you are not telling us as an expert that this is a house
like somebody lives in and comes within the definition of R-1?
A. I am not saying what?
Q. You are not telling us that this well or whatever it might be is going
to be a house, R-1, for a single-family dwelling?
A. No. I am not saying it is a single-family dwelling, no, sir,
But I know that it was set aside as a drilling site and the entrance was set
aside as an entrance to a drilling site when the plat was submitted to the City
for approval as a Residential section.
MR. MATHENY: That's all the questions I will ask you.
MR. ADAMS: Mr. Matheny, where did you say you live?
MR. MATHENY: 740 Randolph Circle.
MR. ADAMS: What lot is that, do you know?
MR. MATHENY: Well, I am gonna show my ignorance. I can point it out for you.
MR. ADAMS: All right. Come right here, please, if you will and point it out.
MR. MATHENY: It is backed right up to this property you have been trying to
change.
MR. ADAMS: You live way over here?
MR. MATHENY: No, sir, I live right here. I know where I live (Mr. Adams and
Mr. Matheny at large map) .
MR. ADAMS: I want the Council to note that MrN' Matheny agrees that he lives
right here in Randolph Circle. And this drill site is 1940 feet from Dowlen
Road. And he is about a 100 feet from Dowlen Road. So he is a good 1800
feet from the drill site. That's all.
MR. MATHENY: I am a human being who knows about the environment, the clean
air, birds and trees and life, the stars and God. And I think that makes me
an expert on environment as much as the man with chemistry who testifies for
manufacturing concerns.
And, as far as being an expert, I am a human being who grew up in Spindletop,
Texas, which is no more. It is gone; no trees= no grass] no nothings no cows
grazing or anything.
And that is what -- this one well will not cause that probably. It probably
won't blow up but there is always the possibility. That's why we have the
Zoning. That's all I have.
MR. STREETY: My name is Don Streety. And I live at 825 Lockwood; I feel that
I need to comment on the well that Mr. Hall has taken pictures of there, cue
one due west on Stacewood.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. STREETY.
Q. Mr. Hall, did you go back on the site and inspect this well?
A. Yes.
-39- ,Tune 20. 1974
Q. What did you find its general condition to be?
A. It is gone. They are taking the -- part of it is being taken down. It is
not in operation.
Q. Did you notice the condition of the oil tanks in that area?
A. Yes'. They are ruptured.
Q. Would you say they are a hazard to children or to the residents?
A. I do. I think they need to be cleaned out.
Q. Did you notice the old pits that we have tried to drain so there wouldn "t
be water standing there.
A. I noticed there was some ditching in there and there is some oil still on
the surface, too.
Q. This well hasn't been in operation for a number of years. Some eight to
10 years ' ago this well with salt pits around it overflowed and killed approxi-
mately ten Acres of trees.
We were able by contacting the Railroad Commission some year-and-a-hald ago to
get the well declared officially abandoned, which has been done.
But we haven't been able to get the operator back in to remove the pump itself
or the tank.
BY MR. ADAMS :
Q. Mr. Streety, just a second.
MR. STREETY: Yes, sir.
(Whereupon, at this time, Mr. Adams examined Mr, Don Streety as follows: )
BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. You all say that salt water got loose and killed the trees.
A. That's my understanding.
Q. That's your understanding.
A. Yes.
Q. Were you in 60-Corporation?
A. That is correct.
Q. And didn"t you all employ me and didn't we sue the company and get a judg-
ment for twenty-five thousand bucks against the pumper?
A. We got the judgment but we never seen the money.
Q. Well, you better talk to the people who comprised that company, because
I got my part of it I'll guarantee you and you all got yours.
A. We got some stock, Mr. Adams.
Q. Aren't you aware that Section 42391 (1) of the City Code which specifically
provides as follows: (Reading)
"A certificate of ownership in fee of all land embraced in the
subdivision of authenticity of the Plat and Dedication including
all properties intended for public use signed and acknowledged
by all owners of any interest in such land and properties" .
Are you aware of that provision of the City Code?
-40- June 20, 1974
A. No, sir, you lost me entirely.
Q. Well, it's in there.
A. I 'm not even sure what you told me when you read that.
Q. And it's not on your Plat. And it 's not on the proposed Plat you pro-
pose to have the City Zoning adopt now.
And you ought to consider that Section 42391 (1) because all of the owners of
any interest in that property have to sign and certify to it.
And you didn't get it done on any of the Plats, did you -- on any of those Plats?
A. I couldn 't answer that.
MR. ADAMS : That ' s all.
MAYOR: Mr. Streety, how many homes are in Dowlen West?
MR. STREETY: In Dowlen West Addition itself I am not sure about the number of
homes. The number of lots developed are 370. There are about, of, probably
another 150 in Sheridan Woods Addition and I think some 16 in what we call
Westgate Estates.
Now, west of Dowlen Road I can tell you there are approximately five hundred
new homes that have been built in the last seven years.
MAYOR: What would you say the average market value is today on those?
A. Average over the whole 500 homes I would imagine would be from thirty-
seven to forty-five thousand dollars. That is taking into consideration the
first homes built there and their value at that time I think was in the low
thirties. I don't know but I think
MR. ADAMS : Mr. Streety.
MR. STREETY: Yes, sir.
MR. ADAMS: Do you
MAYOR: Pardon me. I have another question. Maybe Mr. Hall is more the tax
expert. What would you say the City's revenue would call for that number of
homes Ad Valorem taxes?
MR. HALL: 500 homes at--
MAYOR: What would be the average on those?
MR. HALL: Two hundred and three hundred dollars. I would say they average
about three hundred dollars per home per annum, And 500 would be a million,
five hundred thousand, wouldn"t it--a million and a half--a hundred and fifty
thousand dollars.
MAYOR: A hundred and fifty thousand?
MR. HALL: A hundred and fifty thousand dollars. They would average about
$350. 00 to $400. 00 in taxes . I am talking about the City taxes now, not
school .
MAYOR: What would the tax be to the city if you are familiar with all the pro-
perties that are producing wells .
MR. HALL: I think they get this from a study of the oil in the ground. This
varies considerably with production. And Dr, Claypool can probably answer that
better than I could. It's a considerable amount of money.
-41- June 20, 1.974
DR. CLAYPOOL: It' s appreciable. But I can 't tell you the figures.
MR. HALL: It' s based on reserves, isn't it?
DR. CLAYPOOL: Yes and rate of flow.
MR. HALL: And the rate of the flow. And these wells I don't think are --
MR. ADAMS : I wanted to ask Mr. Streety a question. Mr. Streety, you were a
member of the 60 Corporation. And the 60 Corporation bought this property
originally from the Howth interest, didn't it, the Howth-Wilder interest?
MR. STREETY: A portion of it.
MR. ADAMS : Yes. And this particular tract of land we're talking about was
bought from the Howth-Wilder interest, wasn't it?
MR. STREETY: I believe that's correct.
MR. ADAMS : And they reserved all the oil, gas and other minerals at the time
of conveyance, didn't they?
MR. STREETY: To the best of my knowledge.
MR. ADAMS: And they set aside that particular tract of land for a drill site,
didn't they?
MR. STREETY: This wasn't sold to us. Whether it was officially designated
as a drill site, I am not aware.
MR. ADAMS: But you were aware and you did negotiate with the Executor of the
Wilder Estate with reference to buying a part of this entryway into this tract
of land on Stacewood, didn't you, this 60-foot right-of-way there.
MR. STREETY: We made a swap of some land so that they would have access to this
area, yes.
MR. ADAMS: So that you would have a full lot on either side and there would
be a 60-foot access to this tract of land.
MR. STREETY: Approximately that ' s correct.
MR. ADAMS: And you knew at that time that they reserved that for a drill site.
Didn't they?
MR. STREETY: I knew that was their intention. The only thing I've had to rely
on to protect me is Zoning.
MR. ADAMS: I think that' s all.
MR. EVANS : Mr. Mayor, I would like to make just one comment. I have never sat
through a hearing quite like this. And I am not disturbed about it. I want to
hear from everybody. But I 'm at a loss to who's really running this meeting.
And I think, in all due respect, I think Mr. Adams is one of the finest lawyers
we have in Beaumont. But I really think he shouldn 't cross-examine the people
who are speaking. And I also believe that he should present his case without
interruption.
And then I think that the other side should bring their case. In fact, I don't
know where we are and some members I know have got to go out of town sometime
tomorrow. And I 'm willing to sta'
ty- til in the morning. liut -I want everybody to
be here to vote. And I understand we do have to be here to vote on it.
I am a little bit at a loss and I would like to put the thing in the right per-
spective.
-42- June 20, 1974
MAYOR: Councilman Evans, I thought it would expedite the time to let the people
ask the expert, the so-called expert, witnesses questions, the people who want-
ed to ask questions rather than to bring them back up and duplicate their ap-
pearance before us.
Now, we are gonna get to everyone that wants to make a statement here this even-
ing. And I would hope that Council will remain and we'll vote on the matter.
Now, as to Mr. Adams cross-examining citizens that are speaking here, I would
have to refer again to the City Attorney whether we should permit that or not.
MR. WALL: That's just up to the Council. There are no formal procedures for
this meeting. I think Council should attempt to hear all matters that may be
relevant to it and make its decision based on that.
MAYOR: Whether it is for or against, I don't see that that matters as long
as we hear everyone that wants to make a statement either in behalf or against.
MR. EVANS : Maybe we can lay down some rules.
MAYOR: If you prefer we can limit it to--
MR. EVANS: No.
MAYOR: . . .and finish their presentation here. And then we will go and take up
the rest of the evening on the against. And I am sure we will have enough time
to do that.
MR. EVANS : The only thing I am worried about. . . .
MAYOR: We are going to hear everybody on both sides whether it is mixed and I
think it is mixed anyway even if we tried to separate it. We are going to
have some questions back and forth, so I don't know how we are gonna--
MR. EVANS: Well, you're conducting the meeting, I 'll stay.
MAYOR: Thank you. Yes, sir.
MR. KHOURY: I 'm Bruce Khoury and I still live at 825 Stacewood. However, I
might not after the well is there.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. KHOURY:
Q. You have sold a lot of houses in your business besides doing appraisals,
is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you say when you had two exactly identical homes and one home had
a nicely wooded lot with shrubs on it and the other home was bare earth, that
the house with the trees and the shrubs would have value?
A. Not necessarily would have more value but it might sell quicker.
Q. Well, let's take up the matter of selling quicker. Did your study inves-
tigate the average rate of turnover of a given house under those circumstances
A. No.
Q. . . . .that you studied?
A. No.
Q. So, you don't know for a fact that it didn't take longer to sell those
houses?
A. No. It wouldn't indicate anything that had to do with the oil well. It
would only indicate--
-43- June 20, 1974
I
Q. It would indicate that customers weren't interested in buying a house that
had an oil well behind it at the price asked?
A. As I say it would indicate primarily the market as of the time the house
was placed on it. There are times like, well, today, when we--
Q. Can you--
A. . . . .can sell rapidly and there have been times in the past when--
Q. Have you done a definitive study which proves that fact?
A. Oh, yes, we have studies.
Q. Can you testify on that study?
A. I can take my files and go my multiple listing files that all the houses-
Q. But you cannot testify at this time that the average rate of turnover of
those houses was not increased by the fact there was an oil well behind it.
A. I can testify to the fact it was not, because I know of some at the time
they ,.,Bold and I know what the market conditions were. I know that Bob Damrells
house", for example, sold in a week's time with an oil well behind it and it
didn't make any difference.
Q. Can you testify that that was the case for all of the homes that you took
pictures of?
A. That's the only one that I know. There were other houses—
Q. You had eight single cases there.
A. To answer your question before you ask another one, I think you can get a
better report.
Yes, I do know of the Bob Damrel house that sold within a week after it was
listed and it had an oil well behind it. I do know that Randy McAlphin'-s house
sold. And that house sold. And I do know the circumstances of the market as of
the time.
None of these other houses on this thing that I know of unless I go back and
check the date they were listed and how long it took to sell them, and then
check houses that were listed that same date elsewhere and how long it took
them to sell. Then I could probably with the thousands of sales that I have,
I could probably work out a definitive formula as a measuring stick to esti-
mate this.
Q. But you don't have that available to you now.
A. Only in the case of Bob Damrel 's house.
Q. Would you also say with these two hypothetical, identical homes, if one
was painted, generally well taken care of and the other house had been un-
painted for a number of years, maybe it had a few holes in the plaster and
had little children; the house that was in poor shape would not turn over as
fast as the house--
A. That' s called physical cureable depreciation. Cureable depreciation
is measured by the cost to cure it. Therefore, I would say that house would
sell for as much money subject, to the cost to bring this house up to the con-
dition it was when it didn't have this condition.
Q. But, assuming that it was priced at the same price, it could also take
longer to sell.
A. Oh, I think that would be true.
-44- June 20, 1974
MAYOR: In order to expedite the meeting here, Mr. Adams, how much more do you
have?
MR. ADAMS: I have one short witness, Mr. Thomas, who will testify that he has
examined the titles and the people who signed these leases purporting to be
the owners are the owners of the property.
And that will take about three minutes. And then I will have Mr. Philip Lucas
and probably 10 minutes on him.
John, would you sit here.
JOHN THOMAS called in behalf of the Applicant, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS :
Q. You are Mr. John Thomas.
A. I am.
Q. You are a duly licensed and practicing Attorney in Jefferson County,
Texas.
A. I am.
Q. You were an Attorney for Sun Oil Company for many years.
A. About 39, yes.
Q. Examining land titles and that sort of thing.
A. That was my responsibility: To examine all the titles upon which wells
were drilled.
Q. You have prepared and you actually filed the Application for this Permit
to drill this well.
A. I did.
Q. And have you examined the title to this property under which this well
was drilled to determine the owners and that the owners who signed these leases
are the owners of the minerals?
A. They are.
MR. ADAMS: All right. That's all. Now, Mr. Lucas, will you take the stand,
please.
PHILLIP LUCAS, Applicant herein, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. You are Mr. Phillip Lucas.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are the president I guess of the Lucas Oil Company.
A. I am.
Q. Mr. Lucas, you made Application for a Permit to drill oil on this H. Wil-
liams Survey we have talked about here.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long will it take to drill this well after you get the rig in?
-45- June 20, 1974
A. It'll take about ten days, ten or 12 days.
Q. And the depth is about 8 , 000 feet.
A. 7900, yes, sir.
Q. And you are going to have a moveable rig with diesel motors.
A. Yes, sir®
Q. And to contain the slush and that sort of thing you are going to have
steel tanks.
A. Steel tanks. That's the plan.
Q. And after the work is completed is the place going to be cleaned up and
put in the same shape it was before if it's a failure?
A. If it' s a dry hole, we will restore that surface to as near as practi-
cal to the same shape that it was in.
Q. And, if it is a good well and is productive, will there be a fence around
that area. . . .
A. Oh, yes.
Q. . . . .100-feet square?
A. It' ll be a cyclone fence. And we will probably plant some shrubberies
around the fence, some oleanders or something. And the gate will be kept
locked at all times except when we have our field personnel working in the
area.
Q. While the well is being drilled will there be a guard on the premises. . . .
A. Yes, sir.
Q. . . . .24 hours a day?
A. There will be a guard on the premises.
Q. And you will have an Environmental Specialist check the well every day.
A. I have Dr. Eads to handle that chore for me.
Q. Now, if the well is brought in and it"s successful, for a time it will
flow. And then after a period of time you will have to put it on a pump.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What sort of Pump will you use?
A. It will be a small electric pump. Well, I will say one h.p. maybe two.
I don't know exactly what they use on them.
Q. Will you even be able to hear that pump operate 200 feet from it?
A. No.
Q. It' s practically silent for all practical purposes.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, this 3 . 6 acre site that is there, is a thicket now, is it not?
A. That is correct, yes, sir.
-46- June 20, 1974
Q. If you do get a well back there and it is productive, would you clean
up that site and clear it out, mow it and have it taken care of?
A. Oh, yes, sir, we have to do that. We have to keep those up. It'll be
just grass out there really.
Q. Actually it will be a nice place to be but around the pump unit itself
you will have an iron fence or a cyclone--
A. A cyclone fence, yes, sir.
Q. Could any harm or damage come to anybody who wanted to walk out there
under the trees after you clean up the place and mow it and get it cleared?
A. No, sir. Not that I would know about.
Q. They could go out there and have dinner, or a picnic and play or whatever
they wanted to do.
A. Yes, sir®
Q. Now, you are one of the two local people who are trying to get this Per-
mit and do this development for gas and oil.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you a local boy?
A. Yes, sir, I was born in Beaumont on Liberty Street in 1934 . And I
attended Averill School, Dick Dowling School and Beaumont High School and
Lamar University.
I left Beaumont 34 years after I was born five years ' ago and moved to Houston
which is my present residence.
Q. You have a contract now with the Big Six Drilling Company to drill
this well for you.
A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. And that' s Rig No. 7 .
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That' s the one that Dr. Eads went out and checked.
A. Yes, sir .
MR. ADAMS: I believe that's all.
MAYOR: Maybe I missed it in your presentation there. But do you anticipate
the site having aboveground storage tanks?
A. Yes, sir.
MAYOR: What size?
A. It will probably be two 500-barrell galvanized storage tanks and proba-
bly a separator.
Q. Temporarily or permanently?
A. Well, the tanks would be there as long as the well was there, unless we
could tie into a flowline that 's in the area. And we would still have to put
our tanks at some other location. Normally, it works best right at the well-
head.
-47- June 20, 1974
MR. EVANS: One question I have: Would it be visible? You mentioned a dense
wood or something.
A. I wouldn't think so. Those storage tanks as I said are best located
close to the wellhead which means they would be well back in the woods.
MAYOR: Just a moment. We are gonna conclude Mr. Adam's presentation here in
a moment. And then we will--does that conclude all your people?
MR. ADAMS: That's all the witnesses I have.
MAYOR: All right. Then at this time I think I would like to take, if possi-
ble--well, is there anyone else that would like to speak for that hasn't spoken?
All right. Then I would like to take next and we will get back and hear people
that have spoken on either side. But I would like to give the people that have
not spoken now a chance to make a presentation.
CITIZEN: I have a question for Mr. Lucas.
MAYOR: We will bring Mr. Lucas back if necessary. But I would like to since
the hour is getting late, I would like to take people that have not been heard
previously. O.K. ?
MR. CLARK: Mr. Mayor, I am Lowell Clark, and I live at 860 Stacewood directly
across the street from the lot that is planned on being used as the access
route.
Not being raised in an oil-well or an oil-field community, I am not aware of
the various problems involved with oil field production and equipment. But
there are a few questions that I would like to ask just for my own information.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MR. CLARK:
Q. Do you have plans as to which route you will take for the workers and
equipment coming into the property?
A. Yes, sir?
Q. Would it be down Daisy or Westgate or--
A. I think I could show you on the map a little better.
(Witness and Examiner go to map exhibited to Council)
BY MR. CLARK: For the benefit of the people not looking at the map now the
access route would be down Major to Gladys and down Gladys to Dowlen, down West-
gate to Stacewood and on into the access route from Stacewood.
What shifts or how many workers does it take to man a drilling rig?
A. Well, let me explain this to you. We intend to move that drilling rig
in during daylight hours with police escort. The rig can be moved in in one
day. There will be a night watchman on the location that night.
They will start rigging up the next day and proceed to drilling. There will
be crews around the clock at the location as well as a security guard which I
am going to have to hire.
Q. But how many men does it take to man the crew?
A. It takes four and they work 8-hr. shifts.
Q. What type road do you plan on putting through this access route?
A. Our plans are to hand clear the area of a 60-ft, strip and then put a
road, a one-vehicle road, a board road back to the location.
-48- June 20, 1974
Q. All right. Now, what shifts will these four work? Will they work an
8-hour shift?
A. Yes.
Q. And another four-man crew come on. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .for the next eight hours?
A. Yes.
Q. So, probably four-to-twelve-to-eight to whatever it is.
A. Right.
Q. These people are they brought in by one vehicle or do they drive their
cars in?
A. They will drive their own cars in.
Q. Will they drive their cars back into the drill site. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .with them. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .rather than park them on the street?
A. Oh, yes. They will go right to the location.
Q. Let' s say your well is a producing well of some type.
A. All right.
Q. What type of permanent road would be constructed at that time?
A. One-vehicle shell road.
Q. Well, we sit in the front yard quite often. To me a shell road is not
too attractive to look at across the street.
A. I 've got one at my ranch and I like it.
Q. This is my ranch. If the well is a dry hole, what would be done to that
lot, would it be leveled off?
A. The board road would be taken out and the location would be cleaned up.
And I guess grass would be growing on it. The only thing I have the right to
use it going in. It belongs to the Howth Estate.
Q. The one thing that hasn't been mentioned today. I briefly sat back there
and tried to think how many small children there were in the neighborhood.
I 've got two myself : third grade and below. And no matter how careful we try
to instruct them to be careful in the street, watch for cars, etc . , sometimes
they are a little bit careless.
I would say we have around 20 children from that end of the street from the
third grade below. And most of our neighbors are real careful driving up and
down the street.
It concerns me that we are going to have construction-type workers driving in
and out of the neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, who might not
be quite as careful of the children as we are in our own neighborhood.
-49- June 20, 1974
A. You have that out there right now with the home constructors.
Q. That bothers us also. But we are just about through with construction
on our end of the street.
MR. CLARK: That's all I have. Thank you.
MAYOR: Could I take some other people now that have not spoken before? We
want to make sure that we get to everyone that wants to make a brief state-
ment. Yes, sir.
MR. HINOTE: My name is Tommy Hinote. I live at 6885 Sharon Circle. Now, that
is within the Circle which will be close to the drilling site.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MR. HINOTE:
Q. My question is this--I don't know a lot about the oil industry.
In Dr. Eads ' testimony and I 'm asking you also, Mr. Lucas, we mentioned the
dust factor and other factors. Is there an odor factor? I don't know. That's
why I asked you.
A. No.
Q. No odor factor?
A. None whatsoever.
Q. Also, what is the liability insurance in the event something happens?
What is required or what have you taken out? What is required and then what
have you taken out in the event something does occur in the future?
A. I have taken out what is required of the City here. What are those num-
bers here, Gilbert?
MR. ADAMS: A $25, 000. 00 Bond and the Council will set the liability at not less
than two hundred thousand.
MR. THOMAS: It' s in the insurance certificate filed with the Application.
MR. ADAMS: Well, we have tendered a million dollars in coverage. But the Ord-
inance says it is up to the Council to set it. But that's five times what the
ordinance says.
MR. EVANS: Our Ordinance is out of date. Is that the reason why you made it
five times as great?
MR. ADAMS : We just didn't want to have any question about it.
MR. LUCAS : (Reading from the certificate) Each person, three hundred thousand;
each occurrence, two hundred thousand accident, two hundred thousand, a hundred
thousand each person; three hundred thousand each occurrence a hundred thousand
each occurrence.
MR. ADAMS: You got a million-dollar umbrella on top of that.
MR. LUCAS: Yes. There's a million-dollar umbrella policy on top of that.
MR. HINOTE: Also, if I may ask Mr. Hall a question.
EXAMINATION OF MR. HALL BY MR. HINOTE:
Q. Mr. Hall, when you appraised in your travels in our residential area that
we are concerned with, what would you approximate the value of the homes in
this area?
I am talking about the Dowlen West Addition including the homes going in and
out, such as Monterrey.
--50-- June 20, 1974
A. I see some homes, yours among them and there is one on the corner of
Brandywine and Madrid, which is a two-story house with a roof much like the
one I live in --
MAYOR: Excuse me. (Telephone call for citizen in audience)
A. I would say they exceed the average Mr. Streety testified to. I think
they would be above thirty-five to forty. I think they would get probably
forty-eight to five. Are you talking about the area from Stacewood and on up
to sixty I would say.
MR. HINOTE: That' s all I have. Thank you, sir.
MAYOR: Anyone else that hasn't spoken. Let's make sure that everyone gets to
speak that hasn't spoken so far.
All right, Mr. Matheny, I believe there was a lady before you that wanted to
speak a few minutes ago.
MRS. KHOURY: I have another question. And I am not being facetious. I would
really like to know where the grass is going to be mowed that we can have a
picnic on.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MRS. KHOURY:
Q. As you go through the easement are you going to clear out all the thicket?
A. No ma 'am. The 60-ft. easement will be cleared out enough for a single
vehicle to get in all the way down to the well site. The well site is 100-ft
out of the southwest corner of the drill site.
Now, around the well site we have to clear out some trees and things so we can
put what we call a board turnaround there. And this is where the cars turn
around.
And we have a little office out there and that's where the men work. Now, after
the well is completed, all that will be left is a set of valves no bigger than
the stand you are standing and speaking from. And all the rest of the turna-
round area, we will take the boards up and let the grass grow in there and
that' s where it will be kept mowed.
Q. And when you talk about a fence, are you going to fence in around the
drill site or are you going to fence in the whole acreage?
A. No, ma 'am. The only fence we will have will be a fence to keep this en-
closed and a fence around the tank battery.
Q. Nothing to divide this easement from--
A. No.
MRS. KHOURY: O.K. Thank you.
MR. THOMAS : Let me get the easement, that is owned in fee.
MR. LUCAS : Well, the right of way.
MR. THOMAS : That easement is owned in fee.
MR. LUCAS: Right.
MAYOR: Yes, sir.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MR. MATHENY:
Q. You are making Application in the event there is a producing well to put
at least two above-ground storage tanks for oil, is that correct?
-51- June 20, 1974
A. I don't recall making any such Application.
Q. I thought you told us. Maybe Imisunderstood you.
A. That's what I will need.
Q. O. K.
A. Will be two above-ground storage tanks.
Q. O.K. You are telling us there will be two above-ground storage areas
for oil.
A. Storage tanks, yes.
Q. I was under the impression that the City of Beaumont had an Ordinance
that specifically forbids any flamable liquids of any kind to be stored above
ground.
And I would just like to ask the Council : I thought that service stations had
to close down that had these tanks above the ground. And that we passed an
Ordinance in the City of Beaumont that specifically provided that you had to
have storage underground for flamable liquid and that this would be a flamable
liquid.
And that's the last question I am gonna ask.
MR. WALL: I think I can answer that. That is, of course, correct in certain
area of the City. I don't know what the limitations are in this particular
area.
Of course, if there are any tanks put in in violation of this Ordinance would
be in force if it does apply in this area.
MR. LUCAS: Each one of these wells on the map has a storage tank, Mr. Mayor,
each one of these producing wells.
MAYOR: Mr. Matheny, does that answer your question?
MR. MATHENY: It will probably have to be researched.
MR. MAYOR: All right. Yes, sir.
MR. KHOURY: My name is again Bruce Khoury. And I live at 845 Stacewood Drive.
These two tanks concern me partially, too.
EXAMINATION OF MR. LUCAS BY MR. KHOURY:
Q. They are tanks that will store essentially crude oil, is that correct?
A. Yes, hopefully.
Q. Are you aware of the fact that roughly six months ' ago Mobil Oil had a
monstrous fire at their tank farm?
A. Here in Beaumont?
Q. Here in Beaumont.
A. I mean these are not that big a tank.
Q. Are they similar tanks as this one?
A. Yes.
Q. Are they storing similar material?
A. I would say, I don't know about Mobil.
-52- June 20, 1974
Q. They are crude oil storage tanks.
A. Correct.
Q. Can you guarantee that there will be no hazard from fire or that fire
will not occur or is that not the reason you are required to carry insurance
to protect against occurrences of that nature as well as of other types?
A. I 'm sorry. You asked about four questions at once and I didn't catch
all of them.
Q. Can you guarantee?
A. No, I cannot guarantee.
Q. Have there been other instances of fires around crude oil storage tanks
to your knowledge?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. I can't question your knowledge. However, we are all aware of fires that
have occurred. There is one burning in Baytown now. There was one last week-
end in the Gulf of Mexico where seven men died.
And a million dollars worth of insurance of any type will not cover that type
of damage nor will it cover the damage to the homes in the area should it oc-
cur.
And, as your Environmentalist testified, the fines that exist, should such a
thing happen, could put you out of business. And, if it did, the citizens
would have no recourse.
Thank you.
MAYOR: Anyone else?
MR. YOUSE: I am Bill Youse, 980 Stacewood Drive. I 've heard a lot of the talk
going on around here, a lot of the pros and a lot of the cons.
But, as I was sitting back, there was just about four questions that I think
we ought to address ourselves to.
First of all the geologist, is that Clayhill?
MR. ADAMS: Claypool.
MR. YOUSE: Excuse me. Dr. Claypool has stated that he is 50-50% sure that
perhaps a well will come in, is that correct?
DR. CLAYPOOL: No.
MR. MOUSE: I am not trying to put words in your mouth.
DR. CLAYPOOL: We are never sure of anything in this business, Mr. Youse. If
there is anything predictable about the oil business, it's the unpredictabil-
ity.
MR. YOUSE: Did you say that
DR. CLAYPOOL: I said I think we have a 50-50 chance. And I 'll stand with
that.
MR. YOUSE: All right. Didn't you also say you had been fortunate in that you
had been right about one out of five as far as your drilling was concerned?
DR. CLAYPOOL: My recent track record we will call it, has been that, yes.
-53- June 20, 1974
You can substantiate it with the record if you wish.
MR. YOUSE: All right. So you are 50-50% sure you will get a well. . .
DR. CLAYPOOL: Well, we have the advantage --
MR. YOUSE: Excuse me, sir. Let me finish my question. You are 50-50% sure
that the well--
DR. CLAYPOOL: I 'm not sure of anything. I am giving it a 50-50 chance.
MR. YOUSE: O.K. A 50-50% chance that you will have a producing well plus the
fact that your track record as you say is good in this industry.
DR. CLAYPOOL: I would say so, yes.
MR. YOUSE: About one out of five per cent.
DR. CLAYPOOL: Recently.
MR. YOUSE: Is that correct?
DR. CLAYPOOL: Yes.
MR. YOUSE: The second thing: Dr. Eads eloquently waxed about how he is going
to enforce this particular -- any violation of environmental control.
Now, I submit to the Council that there is a very real question as to whether
or not he has any control at all. He is in fact hired by the man he is sup-
posed to control.
I think we are all familiar with all that I think on Archibald Cox.
The other factor: Mr. Hall has mentioned, if I understand the testimony which
may not be exactly right. But I believe he said there were no actual speci-
fic sales of property before and after the wells were drilled.
These three questions I submit to you as a voter and tax payer for all of this
area concern all of us greatly; along with the fact that there is a very ques-
tionable situation here as to really how safe this thing is going to be. No
one can really be sure what will happen. That's all.
MAYOR: Yes, sir.
MR. RANDOLPH: I am Gary Randolph. I live at 865 Stacewood. Just one comment
about the lot:
Bruce Khoury and I have tried repeatedly to get help on this lot, the drainage
problem with no such luck. I filled it in myself, and I am wondering if I will
have the same problem.
MR. LUCAS: I would think a road would help that. I have noticed that drain-
age problem out there. We would have to put ditches on the side of that road.
MR. RANDOLPH: Well, we had to do that ourselves.
MR. LUCAS: I• am talking about this would be done with machinery.
MAYOR: Anyone else. Have we heard from everyone that wants to make a presen-
tation here this evening?
MR. KHOURY: I am sorry. I hate to consume more of your time. Again, for the
record, my name is Bruce Khoury and I live at 845 Stacewood.
Something that has been kinda glossed over is the fact that April 23rd of this
year the City Council turned down the earlier Permit that was applied for by
the Texas City Refining Co. essentially to drill at the same identical site in
the same manner.
-54- June 20, 1974
The basis for that refusal to issue a Permit at that time was the fact that the
area is zoned R-1 (a) , Residential, and in the feeling of the Council at that
time and in the feeling of the citizens, this was a commercial enterprise which
should not be allowed in that area.
In addition to that we have missed a substantial question concerning the safety
of such an occupation. in commercial industry, the federal government, the
state government and in many places the local government sets rules and regu-
lations regarding the safety of the operation and of the industry.
I 'm an Engineer and I 'm eminently familiar with those regulations. They are
the best that can be formulated at this time with the amount of knowledge that
we now have.
However, those regulations do not preclude an accident. They do not stop ac-
cidents. They reduce the number. An Accident in this area has the potential
of wiping out entire families.
Because of the safety hazards and under the existing Ordinance, we feel that
the City Council should refuse this Application.
I might also submit for the City Council an article from the Beaumont Journal
dated 6-17-74 describing the accident that occurred in New Orleans this year,
last week which resulted in lives lost of four men, if you would like that.
MAYOR: Thank you.
MR. KHOURY: Would you pass that up, please.
MAYOR: Anyone else? Just out of curiosity, Mr. Adams, I would like to know
those who are assembled who have not made a presentation. Let me see a show
of hands of those who support the application. (8 hands shown)
MR. ADAMS: Incidentally, all of those are land owners and oil men.
MAYOR: I don' t know whether it is fair to ask this or not, but I assume they
all have a financial interest in the Application.
MR. ADAMS: Well--
CITIZEN: Ask them how many lives in Dowlen West?
MAYOR: All right. There 's one in Dowlen West.
Now, how many are here that oppose the Application? (Large number of hands)
MAYOR: Mr. Adams?
MR. ADAMS: I would like to sum up in about three minutes. The first is:
They speak of danger. There is nothing more dangerous than these trains com-
ing out of these big plants filled with all kinds of high explosives and tra-
veling down the highway and moving from Beaumont to Houston right in between
those fine additions.
And, if they were ever de-railed such as on Railroad Ave. , we would have rail-
road going up and down like a rollercoaster.
And explode, it's much more dangerous than any one little old oil well out
here 300 feet from any nearest property line.
Furthermore, the Zoning Ordinance never mentions the drilling Ordinance. And
the Drilling Ordinance never mentions the Zoning Ordinance. They are two in-
dependent Ordinances. The Drilling Ordinance was enacted for the purpose of
permitting drilling any place in the City of Beaumont.
And, if it was going to be zoned, I would have though that the Zoning Commis-
sion and the Zoning Ordinance would say something about it. There is no con-
-55- June 20, 1974
flict between the two, because if you will notice when the Zoning Ordinance
was adopted, it was recognized by those preparing the Zoning Ordinance that
the Zoning Ordinance was adopted under the Statutes of the State of Texas.
And on this first page it says : State law references--for authority of city
to zone, see Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes, Arts. 1011a through 1011j .
When they came to adopt them, the City on the second page adopted Articles
1011a to 1011j .
Now, 1011] says that if there is another Ordinance that has greater or higher
standards than those prepared for the Zoning, then those higher standards
will prevail; and if other ordinances provide for lower standards then the
Zoning Ordinance will prevail.
But in this case these two Ordinances are separate and apart independent of
each other and never mention one another.
Aside from that, that Article 1011] was not included and was not adopted by
the City when it passed the Zoning Ordinance. But assuming that it is to be
considered, this Statute 1011j , this Zoning Ordinances provides for much higher
qualifications--I mean the Drilling Ordinance, much higher requirements than
the Zoning.
The fee is $300. 00 and you can't drill a well within a certain distance. You
have to have a bond. You have to have insurance, public liability insurance
coverage. All of these things are much higher requirements than the Zoning
Ordinance.
I think the Drill Ordinance is independent from the Zone Ordinance applied to
the whole City. And as evidence there has been 183 Permits for Wells.
And we have made some study of it and we haven't found any except the previous
one turned down. And as opposed from these various maps scores and scores of
these wells--everyone of these red circles is a well. Now, these owners of
the minerals who reserved them when they sold off the property reserved the
right to develop them. And they certainly have substantial right to develop
those minerals.
And in this energy crises when the only way we can relieve it is for there to
be more drilling development and we have a prime prospect--an excellent pros-
pect.
It is not going to hurt anybody. The noise is going to be minimal. The pol-
lution will be none. It will be 300 feet from the nearest property line.
It will be covered by substantial insurance and substantial bonds. It will
be bird-dogged by a registered, highly respected and capable Environmentalist,
Dr. Eads, who is a professor at Lamar University.
Then too these gentlemen who are making this Application and who are investing
very large sums of money for this development are local people.
You will notice that when Texas City Refining's Application was turned down,
they quit the deal. And you couldn't find somebody from outside to come in.
It had to be local people and we have got local people laying on the line up
to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to help solve the energy situation.
It will put higher tax values on the City's Tax Rolls, the County and the State.
Every precaution is being taken and it is only fair that these owners, taking
all of these precautions and taking all of these security measures, be given
a fair opportunity to lose their money. It may be lost. There is no cinch
in this by any means. If they do, why then, it' s over with. If they win, and
they hit a oil or gas field, then there will be substantial revenue benefit-
ting the entire City, County and State.
-56- June 20, 1974
And we submit that the Application should be granted.
MAYOR: Do any of the members of Council have any questions of any of the peo-
ple who have spoken this evening? I would like to -- I can't see our Attorney
for the map and I would feel much better if I could hold the hearing with all
the Attorneys present if I could have them.
Mr. Wall, for the purpose of the record here would you state for us -- Mr.
Adams corrected my opening statement the fact that this is a new drilling per-
mit by stating that it is being made by somewhat different Applicants than
previously made. But it is a fact it is the same drill site and same type of
request that came before the Council previously.
Council at that time voted on a vote of four with one abstention to turn down
that request. Mr. Attorney, would you refresh our memory as to how that mo-
tion was made that the Council voted on at that time.
MR. WALL: Mr. Mayor, I don't recall which Councilman made the motion. The
motion was made to deny the Request for Permit and it was carried four votes
to deny and one abstention. I don't recall who made the motion.
MAYOR: I made the motion. It wasn't one of the Councilmen. I wanted to
collaborate my memory. I believe it was on the basis of it looked to us to
be a conflict between R-1 which permits only three usages.
MR. WALL: Yes. I think that was stated in the Motion that Council was bas-
ing its decision on the fact that the property was zoned R-1.
MAYOR: That is the Motion that Council voted on, is that correct?
CITY CLERK: That's right.
MAYOR: Since that interim period, Mr. Attorney, have you come across any
legal information or legal opinions that you have not previously given prior
to that?
MR. WALL: No, sir. We discussed my view of the law at the time of the first
application. My opinion has not changed.
MAYOR: All right. And since the Applicant after refusal of the Permit has
not taken the City to court on that, there has been no Court Opinion or ad-
judication on what appeared in the opinion of some members of the Council
to be some conflict of the two Ordinances.
MR. WALL: No, there has been no litigation on this at all.
MAYOR: Legally, we are actually in the same position at the time of the
first application.
MR. WALL: In my opinion, yes.
MAYOR: Do any of the Councilmen -- I believe Councilman Evans --
COUNCILMAN EVANS: The only question I have and this disturbs me. Since I
been on the Council we have passed several Drilling Ordinances. I had no
opinion. I thought if anybody came in and they met requirements, that we
had no choice except to issue an ordinance.
This disturbs me that some people who you might say because of not knowing or
my ignorance or whatever you want to call it can sit and have oil wells dril-
led in their backyards and other people can't.
Now, the only thing that gets me about the thing is, it seems that we need to
have something fair. If our Ordinance is wrong, then I think it's up to the
City Council to change it.
MAYOR: I believe the Legal Department should be in charge of this.
-57- June 20, 1974
MR. EVANS: This is something that should be done. I am very much in sympathy
with people who own homes. And I don't agree that the man who has a home
next to a oil well that the value won't be hurt some. I won't say that it
will be great. But I say that his value will be hurt no matter what.
But the thing that worries me. I think we have to follow some sort of line
and Mr. Adams has made a good point. Everyone of us here used petroleum to
get down here and we will do the same thing going home.
And I work at a refinery. So I realize that there is a shortage and all this.
I don't want us to be like England or California, get ourselves in such a
prediction. And yet I don't feel that Texas should be the one to suffer may-
be all the environmental problems to keep the rest of the country going, who
won't even allow refineries or this sort of thing to come into the area.
All of this is very improtant to us, because without it, we can 't move. The
question to me is I would really like to see something definite. And, if it
is failed, who in case a lawsuit is brought will it be brought against? Will
it be brought against the City or against him?
MR. WALL: I would assume that if the Council does not grant the Permit that
the Applicants would file suit against the City. I think Mr. Adams would be
better able to answer that to your satisfaction.
COUNCILMAN WILLIAMS ; It seems to me it is a legal question as we have dis-
cussed because it seems to me the Applicants have met what is required of
them in my judgment. It seems to me rather superfluous that the Council
should have to act on this Permit from the discussion I've heard this even-
ing.
My question is, Mr. Attorney, the Charter requires that the Council does
pass.
MR. WALL: The Drilling Ordinance provides no well may be drilled within the
City unless a Permit is received from the City Council. That, of course,
can be amended at any by the Council unlike the Charter. The Ordinance
can be amended.
MAYOR: I have a question, Mr. Hall. In the west end of Beaumont what is
considered the undeveloped part of potential for residential development, how
many acres would you say is under lease presently to oil companies?
MR. HALL: Leases for oil wells?
MAYOR: Right.
MR. HALL: Over a thousand acres.
MAYOR: Isn't there one ten thousand acre tract out there in 1-R or something?
MR. HALL: I think so but I 'm not sure. I would think that would be beyond
Major Drive over to Keith Road, yes, I guess so all the way up to maybe 105.
MAYOR: Right.
MR. HALL: I would think in terms of oil wells on those maps there's over a
thousand acres. That is just between Dowlen Road and Major Drive where there
are oil wells. Yes, there would be probably ten thousand if you go all the
way out, out to the city limits out there.
MAYOR: But much of that is totally undeveloped area.
MR. HALL: Yes.
MAYOR: The ten thousand Acres that I mentioned is in an area that is totally
undeveloped at this time.
_58' June 20, 1974
MR. HALL: Yes, sir, primarily undeveloped.
MR. WILLIAMS: One other question: Mr. Adams, you questioned Mr, Streety
along the line of reserving the mineral rights to the property that was
bought and later developed.
Could you summarize the thrust of your questions at this time, his knowledge
of the preservation of the mineral rights and subsequent development?
MR. ADAMS: Mr. Don Streety was a member of 60 Corporation, a stockholder
in it; Gaston Wilder was. The Howth Estate and the 60 Corporation bought the
property from the Howth Estate and some other people. And the Howth Estate
reserved all of the oil, gas and other minerals in, on, and under that land
with the right to go in and develop and recover.
And then when they sold off this tract of land they set aside this -- it was
actually four Acres at the time they set it aside down here -- it was four
acres that they set aside for a drill site to drill for anything that might
develop in the future.
And that has been some many years ' ago. Everybody who has bought a house
out there or a piece of land out there knows. It shows up in their titles
CITIZENS: No. No.
MR. ADAMS: . . . .and their insurance. . . .
CITIZENS: No.
MR. ADAMS: . . . .title policies.
CITIZENS: No. No.
MR. WALL: It's of record in Jefferson County.
MR. ADAMS: There's no question about that. The filed instruments will show
it. And every Title Policy issued on those houses -- everybody who bought a
house got a Title Policy and that Title Policy excludes all of the oil, gas
and other minerals. It 's right on the face of the policy.
Mr. Streety knew all the oil, gas and other minerals were reserved. And that
site was set aside on the map. It's very difficult to understand how any-
one wouldn't be aware of it. Now people say they are not but when the very
title papers which you hold say on the face of theTr, all oil, gas and other
minerals are excluded, then one needs only to read it.
MR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned some part about the exchange of property in order
to reserve the right-of-way into the subject property, of which Mr. Streety
was also knowledgable and also involved in that transaction. Could you sum-
marize that for me again.
MR. ADAMS : I think I can show it to you clearly over here on the map. Can
you see this?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR. ADAMS: It was a 4-Acre square block like this (indicating) . When Mr.
Streety wanted to develop this much of the property, he traded with the Howth
Estate. You see that much of the property was in this unit. In order to
have a full lot, he had to get this much additional land to make this lot a
full lot. He had to get this much additional land there to make this a full
lot.
So he traded this fornt part right here for this part and this part to leave
a 60-ft. right-of-way into this drill site.
-59- June 20, 1974
MR. WILLIAMS: It is a matter of record that that transaction was made for
that particular purpose.
MR. ADAMS : I handled it. I represented the Howth-Wilder Estate. I handled
it and viewed the papers and am aware of it.
MR. LUCAS: I have a detailed map of that, Gilbert. It's in my brief case.
MR. ADAMS: If they want any further discussion, I will be glad to get it.
That's why it' s not four. Now, it's just 3 .66 Acres. Mr. Streety was
traded a little piece of this property here and a little tip of that lot
there so that he would have two lots on either side. Then he gave the little
front part a short distance to give a complete entry way. Incidentally,
most of the members are in this room.
MR. RANDOLPH: My name is Gary Randolph. As I say I live at 865 Stacewood.
I was under the impression or the understanding that this land would be tied
up for 50 years. I think my neighbors were, too. I feel very much that I
was deceived by my builders and several others that I talked to in the area
assured me of this. That' s all I have to say.
MR. WILLIAMS: May I ask you, sir, who was your builder?
MR. RANDOLPH: Tom Bailey. And I heard this from my neighbors that had talked
to their builders, too. And I am sure they will be happy to tell you, too.
MAYOR: I believe there' s one other gentleman.
MR. HINOTE: I can back up Dr. Randolph's statement. I brought out this
point the last time Council met. At the time I bought the property to put
my house on, I was told this land would not be developed for 50 years; it was
to be left in its natural state. If I was deceived, that 's my own fault.
This is what I was told when I signed the papers when I bought the house and
when I built the house which is 6885 Sharon Circle.
MR. ADAMS: You were not told this by the owners of this land, were you?
MR. HINOTE: No. By the way, my builder was Wallace Watson.
MR. STREETY: I would like to clear the record on this. None of these state-
ments can be attributed to me. I was the developer of this land but where
these statements came from I have no idea.
MAYOR: Does Council have any questions?
MR. CASH: I would like to direct a question to Mr. Wall. Surely there has
been a case similar to this in the past. Do you have any record of what ac-
tion was taken by the courts?
MR. WALL: The question we discussed when the Permit was originally applied
for has not been decided by the Texas . Courts in my opinion. I advised the
Council what the outcome would be based on similar cases, what I think the
outcome would be.
MAYOR: Does anyone else have any other questions?
Mr. City Attorney, have we satisfied all the requirements here before the
Council acts on this Application?
MR. WALL: I think you've done more than that, Mayor.
MAYOR: Does anyone else have anything they want to say before the Council
does take action?
I want to say that I appreciate everyone's attendance through a rather lengthy
meeting here this afternoon. I apologize for the lack of airconditioning in
the room. But I do appreciate your attention and bearing with us through
this presentation.
-60- June 20, 1974
I hope that both sides feel like the Council has given them equal time and
opportunity to present to the Council their sides and their presentation.
So unless the members of the Council have any other questions or statements
they would like to make we are ready for -- are there any?
I will ask at this time then, is there a Motion on this Application?
MR. CASH: Mr. Mayor, I will go ahead and make a motion to bring it to a head.
I will say this: I would like to make both sides happy but it won't be pos-
sible, because I think we need the drilling of oil for the future of our na-
tion. Yet at this time I would like to protect what I feel to be the rights
of the citizens.
But really after listening to the evidence that has been presented, it is my
conclusion that the well can be drilled without any serious problems to the
neighborhood.
And I am going to make a Motion that the request be granted.
MAYOR: A Motion is made to grant the Applicant's Request. Is there a second
to that motion?
MR. WILLIAMS: Second.
MAYOR: The Motion then is made and seconded. Any other discussion on this
motion.
If not, then, are you ready for the Question?
MR. WILLIAMS : Question.
MAYOR: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. WILLIAMS, MR. CASH, and MR. EVANS: Aye.
MAYOR: All opposed.
MAYOR and COUNCILWOMAN McGINNIS : Aye.
MAYOR: The Motion passes and the Permit is granted. I want to thank every-
one for being here. . . .
MR. WALL: I think in view of that, the Council needs to set the amount of
bond and liability insurance. The applicants have tendered liability insur-
ance in the amount of $1, 000, 000. I think that is probably sufficient, as
is the $25, 000 bond to secure any damages to the streets.
MAYOR: Does that need to be done at this time?
MR. WALL: Yes. . . .I would recommend $1, 000, 000 liability insurance and the
$25, 000 bond.
COUNCILMAN WILLIAMS made a motion to set $1, 000,000 liability insurance and
$25, 000 bond; the motion was seconded by COUNCILWOMAN McGINNIS .
Question: Ayes: All Nayes: None
-000-
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned.
-000-
I, Myrtle Corgey, City Clerk of the City of Beaumont, Texas, certify that the
above is a true of the Minutes of the special session held June 20, 1974.
Myrtle Corgey
City Clerk
-61- June 20, 1974
NO CITY COUNCIL MEETING TODAY
JUNE 25, 1974
i
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PAGE
1
I
2
z
j 3
4 SPECIAL SESSION OF BEA UST CITY COUNCIL
5 HELD JUNE 20, 1974
6 Four o'clock P.N. , City Hall
7 CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
s Beaumont, Texas
9
10
11 TO CONSIDER APPLICATION TO DRILL OIL WELL
12 BY LUCAS & COmpANY
13
14 ---000---
15
16
17
is
i
19
20
21
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22
23
24
.� 25
i
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 2
A PPEARANCES
2 Mayor, Ken Ritter
3
Councilman, Don S. Cash, Ward No. 1
4 Councilwoman, Vi McGinnis, Ward No. 2
5 Councilman, Calvin Williams, Mayor Pro Tenn
6 Councilman, J. Leroy Evans, Ward 4
Ir. Kenneth Wall
7 M counsel for the City
8 Mr. Gilbert Adams, counsel for Petitioner
9
Petitioner, Mr. Philip Lucas
10 Dr. C. B. Claypool, for Petitioner
11 Dr. E. A. Eats, for Petitioner
12 Mr. Willard J. Hall, for Petitioner
13 Mr. John Thomas, for Petitioner
14 Mr. Richard Hopkins, for Petitioner
15
16 OPPOSING PETITIONER:-
17 Carl Greig
18 Mr. and Mrs. Bruce Khoury
19 Bill Jones
20 Michael Matheny
21 Charles Gibbs
22 Don Streety
23 Lowell Clark
24 Tommy Hinote
25 Bill Mouse
Gary Randolph
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 3
1 (Whereupon, at this time, the Mayor having
2 called the Council Meeting to Order* the Invocation and
3 the Roll Call being completed, as well as a Special Re-
4 port being submitted to the Council by Mrs. Maxine Green-
5
leaf, the Proceedings continued as follows * )
6 MAYOR, At this time we will go into the Ap-
7 Plication of a drilling permit. As most of you are aware,
8 this is the second time this has been reviewed by the
9 Council. However, this Is a new permit. This does require
10 Council's action on the new permit.
We will hold this as a public hearing.
11 At the
12 end of this hearing the Council will vote and take official
13
action on the Application.
14 First, we will hear from the Applicants .
After
15
the Applicants have been heard from, we will listen to any-
16
one who would like to speak for or against this Application.
17 We will not require that anyone be sworn. It
18
is up to the Applicants and their witnesses. It is their
19 prerogative . As far as Council is concerned, we will lis-
20 ten to anyone and only ask for your name and address for the
21 purpose of the record and the Minutes of this meeting.
22 At this time, we recognize Mr. Gilbert Adams,
23 Attorney, I believe who is representing Lucas & Company, as
24 the Applicant on this Oil Well Drilling Permit.
25
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
it
PAGE 4
1 1 (Whereupon, at this time, Mr. Adams requested
permission for the proceedings to be reported by the court
3
reporter, which request was granted, the Proceedings being
4 continued as follows: )
5 MR, ADAMS : As I just stated, the previous
6 Application was by Texas City Refinery. That Application,
7 as I understand it, was turned down. Then Texas City Re-
8 fining Company turned back the leases and cared to go no
9 further with its didn't want to get into a controversy
10 with the City or anybody else and they'd go elsewhere .
11 Lucas and Company has taken over the leases
12 and made the Application here . And, with that statement,
13 we are ready to proceed with our proof.
14 But I will point out as we see the law and
15
understand it, this is an Administrative Proceeding., And
16
it is one that is very important and may be binding. There
17
fore, we will ask that our witnesses be sworn and the mat-
18
ter be conducted lust as though it were in a court room.
19 If it is a true Administrative Proceeding,
20
then that is the way it ought to be conducted and the recorck
21
will govern.
22 And, with that statement, I would like to
23
introduce some basic items which are important to show that
24
Lucas & Company have the right to proceed.
25
We have the original leases from the land
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
li
PAGE 5
1 Owners to Dr. Claypool, who is outstanding and certainly
2 one of the great geologists of the United States.
3 And he has assigned those leases and they were
4
assigned back to Lucas & Company. We have the original
5 leases . We offer themin evidence. And we will ask that
6 they be marked as exhibits and that we be permitted to
7
substitute copies, because, they are, of course, very val-
8 uable Instruments. (Applicant's Exhibits #1 attached)
9
Then our next Exhibit is the Application by
10 Lucas & Company to the Railroad Commission of Texas to
11
drill this well and the grant by the Railroad Commission
12 permitting the drilling of the well. (Applicants #2 attached)
13
And I will give these to the court reporter
14 to mark them in due course.
li
15 1 know that the Charter of the City of
16 Beaumont is well known to Council. And everybody knows
17 that we have a Charter and operate under the Home Rule City.
18 But when you are proving things,, then that's another matter
19 and you've got to get them In evidence .
20
So, I want to introduce in evidence the Charter
21 of the City of Beaumont . And I refer to pages one through
22 62 of the Official Code of the City of Ordinances and the
23
Charter of the City of Beaumont,* and ask if it would be
24
permissible to withdraw this after a copy has been furnish-
25 ed to the court reporter In lieu of this volume . (Pages re-
ferred to are made a part hereof by reference)
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 6
In addition to that, we introduce the Zoning
2 Ordinance prepared by the City, which we have here, and
3 it will be available. (Attached hereto)
4 And then we next introduce copy of the Oil and
5 Gas Well Application and Drilling Ordinance, Chapter 24
6 of the City Code . We introduce the Code on that subject.
7 And this is the copy of that Chapter 24 permitting Permits
8 to be granted. (Applicant' #3 attached hereto)
9 1 presume the City Clerk has -- it it correct
10 that you have the Application filed by Lucas & Company?
11 CITY CLERK: Yes, sir, I do.
12 MR. ADAMS : We would like to introduce the
13 original Application filed by Lucas & Company for this per_
14 mit to drill the well together with the payment of the
15 filing fee of $300.00, the Bond and the Certificate of
16 (A p#4 attached hereto)
Insurance. Do you have those?
17 CITY CLERK: (Handing)
18 MR. ADAMS: Attached to these papers which
19 1 have Is the official receipt of the City of Beaumont show-
20 ing Lucca & Company paid the $300.00 fee, June the 7th,
21 and filed this Application for Permit together with the
22 insurance certificate showing the requisite amount of
23 insurance coverage as required by the Drilling Permit Ordi-
24 nance; together with the Application for the Permit to
25 Drill the Well. And attached thereto is an exhibit showing
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 7
the location. And we will have bigger exhibits on the
2 board to demonstrate to the Council.
3 We will want this to stay with the Court Re-
4 porter until we can substitute a 'copy.
5 Then we have the bond in accordance with the
6 Drill Permit Ordinance of $25,000-00, which we will intro- ,-.,,
7 duce here.
8 That constitutes at this time all the prelim-
9 inary, and what we consider to be jurisdictional exhibits
10 necessary for this Council to have actual legal juridic-
11 ton.
12 Now* if the Council would permit, I would like
13 to call a very distinguished geologist, who will give us
14 some idea about whether this is just a speculative wild-cat
15 well to be drilled or whether it is something that is a
16 first-class prime prospect for the production of oil and
17 gas. And that's Dr. C. B. Claypool.
is Doctor, would you take this chair, please,
19 DR. C. B. CLAYS OOL
20 called in behalf of the Applicant, testified as follows:
21 EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. ADAMSt
23 Q. You are Dr. C. B. Claypool.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Doctor, how long have you been a professional
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
II
i PAGE 8
geologist?
2 A. Since 1929.
3 Do you have any degrees evidencing study in
4 the field of geology?
5 A. I have a Ph.D., University of Illinois, 1933.
6
Doctor of Philosophy degree in Geology.
7
A. Yes, sir.
8
Thereafter you practiced where?
9 A. I practiced -- after the degree?
10
Yes .
11 A. I practiced first with the Illinois Geological 'n
12 Survey. And then following that the U.S. Geological Survey �,
13
Topographical Division.
14
I came to Texas from Illinois in 1934, the
15 fall, and entered into the field of Geophysics and worked
16
for the Independent Exploration Company for a year-and-a-
17 half. They were situated in Houston.
18 In February, 1946, 1 became Gulf Coast Divi-
19
sion Geologist for the Sun Oil Co. And I was with them for
20
a period of 11 years, resigning in February, 1947, to con-
21
duct a private consulting practice.
22 And since 1947 you have been a private prac-
23
tieing Geologist in the consulting field since 1947.
24 A. That is correct.
25 Actually you have been working in the field of
Geology since about 1927, have you not?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
i
i'
PAGE 9
i'
I 1 A. That is correct. I went to the University of
2 Illinois with the thought of being a Petroleum Geologist.
3 So, you have been practicing actually about
4 47 years .
5 �
That is correct Yes.
I 6
1 know this sometimes gives a man a little
7
feeling of embarrassment, but we want to try to demonstrate
s your ability, Doctor, and I will ask you if whether or not
I 9
since you have been an independent Geologist in 1947 down
10 to date, you have been the moving and
grime factor in study
11 ing Geology and locating what has turned out to be coil
12 f ields or gas fields in this area?
13 A. That would be correct, yes.
14 How many coil or gas fields in Jefferson County
15 alone have you been one Of the prime movers, developers and
I
16 discoverers Cif
17 A. Over 20, air.
18 Q Over 20.
19 Yes.
20 Q. As such of course that is
g � Just Jefferson
21 County.
22 A. That is correct.
23 Q. That doesn't include areas out of this county, And
24 you are today a practicing Geologist Consultant.
25 A. Yes.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER -
PAGE
10
Doctor, have you had occasion in this energy
2
crisis and by the way is this energy crisis that we
3
read about, is it a simulated thing; or, as a roan in this
4 field, can you tell us whether it's real or simulated?
5 A would prefer to say very definitely and
positively it is very real.
7 An oil reservoir or gas reservoir is like
8
any other reservoir, when you pump all the oil and gas out, ,
9
it is then without any hydrocarbons.
10
Is that correct?
11 A. Well, essentially so. There might be a 3econ-
12
dart' recovery on occasion that we recover additional amounts.
13 But in normal Gulf-coast areas primary recovery accounts
14
for almost the entirety.
15
And, therefore, if there is to be sufficient
C) 16 energy to operate this country, there needs to be more
17 discovery of oil and gas and hydrocarbons as they call it.
18 A. I feel it 's very, very necessary.
19 Now, have you made a study of the proposed
20
Drill site for which Lucas & Company has made Application,
21 so that you can tell us something about the geology of that
22
particular location?
23 A. Yes.
24
I will give you this pointer if you happen to
25
need it. I might try to bring this thing up a little
EDNA LABovE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE
closer (Exhibiting large map) .
10 2
Now, Doctor, this location is in what we
3
know as H. Williams Abstract 56 League in Jefferson County,;
4 is it not?
5 A. Yes.
6 Right there (indicating) . It's a little
7
square. I see on this map a dark line right here (indi-
8
eating) North of the location and another dark line farther",
9
North of the location.
0 10 A. That is the locale of two significant faults in
11
the area at the horizon of the first marginal line of sand
12 which is mid-Obligocene in age.
13 When we speak of a "fault" in order to find
14 this oil and gas, it has to accumulate some place. And
15 in the oil and gas fields, we speak of traps, do we not,
16 or maybe a dome like Spindletop.
17 A. Yes.
18
But elsewhere sometimes we refer to it as a
19
trap- And that trap is created when the land or surface
20
is level. And then something occurs and the lower side
21
breaks off leaving a bank. And then the hydrocarbons
22 drift to and gather against that bank. And that's called
23 the trap.
24
Is that correct or not?
25 A. That is correct; in a generalized way, that's
EDNA LASOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 12
true . A fault is any discontinuity of formation where
2
there has been appreciable movement in relation of one side
3
to the other.
4
Can you point out on this map -- and by the
5
way who prepared that? Did you prepare that or was it pre- �
6 pared-
7 A. The initial work was mine, yes.
8 That's the geological study that was made.
9 A. Yes, that's true .
10 Q. And you say that this black line right here
11 that I'm pointing to on this map is a fault line .
12
A. It's a fault line at this particular horizon.
13 Bearing in mind that lower horizons would successfully trans-
14 late and move.
15
Have wells been drilled in that particular
16
area which has aided you in your study to determine where
17
this particular field might be. . . .
18
A. Yes.
19
Q- . . . .in reference to this' matter?
20 A. Very much so. The Normandy Putnam for example.
21 This Is a small amount. Let's take a larger
22
one.
23
A. It would be this well right here (indicating) .
24 a That was called the Normandy Putnam.
25 A. Normandy Oil Company on the Putnam acreage, yes.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 13
And it was drilled when?
2 A. Oh, roughly '37.
3 I And have you studied the geology from that
4 well?
5
A. Yes .
6
Were there some other wells drilled?
7
A. Yes . Two rather significant wells, one by
8 Glenn McCarthy on the .Ian .harp property which is this well
9
right here for example (indicating on large map) .
10 And this one here on the Weinbaum property.
11 And then we have a number of edge wells. What we might term
12 edge wells of the West Beaumont Field as outlined.
13
From the study of the geology of those wells,
14 can you tell that there was a fault in this area?
15 A. The fault is indicated by the structural
1 16
positions of these wells in relation to the field proper in
17
relation to other wells. For example, this large Smith
18 well to the southwest and wells further southward; so that
19
It appears that we are dealing with a small down-fallen
20
segment or block which is actually a portion of the greater
21
West Beaumont feature, which I consider a salt anticline,
22 When I say salt anticline,# we 're dealing with
23
a very deep salt, not a salt that probably will ever be J
24
found on account of depth; but, nevertheless, the appear-
; 25 ance of it indicated that it is sslt-motivated.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 14
And it 's a structure that proceeds southward
for example into the Amelia field, and northward through
3 what we term as Rosedale, which is this area here; and
4 thence northeastward into what is known as Cook's Lake
5
area .
6
It 's a very prominent geological feature and
7
long recognized.
8
Now, will you tell the Council why this par-
9
ticular well is requested to be drilled at the particular
10 location?
11 A.: I am very strongly of the opinion that the
12
Normandy Putnam- which had a very significant showing
13 in the first marginal. line of sand and a drill-sand test
14 at that point which failed could be catching so to speak;
15 which, in our terminology is have oil or gas thereon.
16
And one or two other sands which appear sus
17
Dicious on the log itself. Plus the fact that I feel very
18 confident of this particular fault here,* the relation of
19
these two wells for example; and the down-drop or lower
20
structural position in relation to the field itself.
21
Now, this particular drill site is 3.66 Acres
22 You know where it is, of course.
23 A. Yes.
24 And you have designated that as the particular
25
place . . . .
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE
15
A. Yes .
2 . . . .where the well ought to be drilled.
II
3 Yes. It is relatively favorable we will say.
4
And do you class this as a wild-cat or do you
5
class it as a prime first-class prospect for success?
6 A. I would class it as a prime first-class pros-
7 pest for success on the order of 50%.
8
You say you think it's on a 50-50 basis .
9
That's pretty high.
10 A. That is good in our business.
Now, Doctor, I believe you originally took
12 those leases in your name .
13 A. That's right.
14
And you had somebody else get them in your
name
16
A. No. I took them in my name. The 'Howth Estate
17 itself was brought to me by a very close friend: a fellow-
18 worker, a fellow geologist, Carl VanWormer.
19 And due to our long friendship he came to me
20 essentially first to get my opinion. And I liked the area .
21 1 have liked the area for quite some time. So, it was a
22
meeting of the mind so to speak.
23 From there we expanded the lease block.
24
Q1. And took in the leases on the mineral estates
25
of the various owners.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 16
A. That is correct.
Q, There are a number of local residents who
3
own minerals under these leases, are there not?
4
A. Yes .
5 Now, the people who are going to finance this
6 drilling operation, are they people from away, afar off
7 In California or New York or where are they from, Doctor?
8 A. Well, I am one of them and you know where I
9 live.
10 You live here in Beaumont.
11 A. Yes, I've lived here since the fall of '35.
12 Q, This will be financed actually by you and by
13
Lucas Company.
14
A. Mr. Lucas who is a Beaumont resident or not
15 today he Is a Houston resident. He was born here.
16 And reared here.
17 A. Tutored here so to speak.
18
You all are committing ydur-SedVesto large sums
jl 19 of money for this exploration project.
20 A. At the moment Mr. Lucas and myself are the
21 sole owners of the lease.
22 MR. ADAMS: I believe that's all.
23 If Council would have questions, we would
24 be glad to have the Doctor answer them.
25
All right. Thank you, Doctor. You may have
EoNA LABoVE
COURT REPORTER
I
I
PAGE 17
1 a seat over there ®
2 3. WILLIAMS: I have one question, Cdr. At-
3 torney ..
i
4 Ya. ADAMS: All right.
5 ASR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned -'our chances of
I
6 0-50 as being relatively high in the coil field business.
7
In relation to what so that I Haight have a better grasp to
s what you mean.
,
s M.. ADAM It's my understanding in the
10 slight experience I've had, if you get one well out of 10
11 or 20, you're lucky . What's the score, Doctor?
12 DR. CLAYPOOL.- Perennial Estimate has been
13 about one out of nine. However, recently, that locks about
14
like one out of 11. We have been very fortunate in our
15 own operations and we have approximated one out of five.
16 M.. ADAMS You can understand a man who has
17 found 21 oil fields in Jefferson County is a pretty
good
1s g uesser..
1s Dr. .dads, mould you take the chair,
please, six .
20 DR. E. A.EADS
21 called as a witness in behalf of the Applicant, testified
22 as follows:
23 BYLAMINATION
I
I 24 BY MR. ADAMS
+, 25
You are Dr. E. A. ids.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
i
PAGE 18
Yes, air.
............ Where do you live, Dr. Fads?
3 A. 915 East Lavaca, Beaumont, Texas.
4 You are a Doctor of what?
5 A. Professor of Chemistry, Doctor of Philosophy.
6
Q. And you have a Doctor's degree in Chemistry?
7
A. Yes, air.
8
You have been teaching at Lamar University
9
how long?
C, 10 A. 28 years. It will soon be 28.
11 Q. Have you done any Environmental work, Doctor?
12 A. Yes, air.
13 Are you or not a Registered Licensed Environ-
14 mentalist?
15 A. Yes, air.
16 Q1_ Registered by the State .
17 A. Yes, air.
18 Q. And authorized to practice that field of en-
19 deavor.
20 A. Yes, air.
21
Have you made one or many environmental
22 studies?
23
A. Yes, I've made several.
24 Did I request that you make an Environmental
25 Study on this drill site in the H. Williams Survey that is
0
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 19
1 under discussion here today?
2 A, Yes, sir, you did.
3
Did you make such Environmental Impact Study?
4
A. Yes, I did.
5
Now, Doctor, subsequent testimony will show.
6 And I think this big map has on it that this drill site is
7 located right here (indicating on large map exhibited to
8 Council) which is 1940 feet west of Lucas Drive. I mean
9 not Lucas, but Dowling Road.
10
And it comprises a tract of land of 3.66 Acres
11
Have you been out there on this ground?
12 A. Yes, sir, I have .
13 Would you describe to the Council the type of
14 flora and fauna, and growth and trees and shrubs and brush
15 and that sort of thing on this piece of property.
16 A. Yes, sir. It's very thick; mostly hardwood;
17 a brushy area and practically impenetrable without hacking
18 out some shrubbery and some underbrush. It's quite dense.
19 Q, Now, by measurement we are showing here the
20 location of this well site to the nearest property line is
21
300 feet east and to the nearest property line north is
22
300 feet.
23 Are you aware that that well is proposed to
24 be located at that juncture right there on this tract of
25 land which is on the southwest corner of the 3.66 Acres?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 20
A. Yes.
2 Q.
Are you aware of it?
3 A. Right.
4
Q11 Now, were you given information with reference
5
to the kind of drilling rig that would be used. . . .
6
A. Yes .
7
. . . .to drill this well?
8
A. Yes.
9
Q_ Were you told it was a particular-number rig
10
of a particular company?
11 A. Yes.
12
Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7.
13 A. Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7, yes, air.
14 Q. Were you told where that rig was in actual
15 operation so you could go look at it?
16
A. It was nine miles north of Silsbee.
17 At the time you saw its
18 A. Yes, air.
19 Q, And you identified it. Did they have any
20 signs out there., Big Six Drilling, Rig No. 7?
21 A. Yes . Yes, on the road turnoff as you go into
22
the property there on the Weaver property.
23 01 So that this Council will have an opportunity
24 to evaluate the question of noise; did you have a noise
25 meter with you or a meter of some kind to monitor the noise
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 21
or the sound at certain distances from this rig as it is
2
perceived and received by the listener?
3
A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Did you measure it at a distance of a 100 feet
5 from the rig?.
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. What kind of rig is this, a steam rig or a
8 diesel rig.
9
A. A diesel driven rig.
10
And at 100 feet what was the register of the
sound vollume?
12 A. There was no noise above 90 decibels and the
13 average noise about 75 decibels.
14
No noise from this drilling rig above 90
15 devibels and generally about 75.
16
A. Yes, sir.
17
Did you measure it at 150 or 200 feet?
A. I measured it on down to--I approximated 300
19
feet.
20
At 200 feet what was the decibels?
21
A. It dropped off to 80, 82, 83 decibels . No
22
noise above that. Average down around about 65 to 70
23
decib els .
24
300 feet away from this drilling rig what
25 was the measurement of the sound?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
1
PAGE 22
A. 60 and 65 decibels.
2
We have talked about 60 and 65 decibels. And
3
we have shown here that this well location will be 60 feet
4 from the nearest property line.
5
Tell 'us about what a decibel is, Doctor.
6 A. A decibel is the amount of noise that it takes
7 to make an audible sound; Just simply that. It is the
8
amount of pressure it takes to make it in other words to
9 where one can bear it, where the average person can bear
10 it.
11
You made a study on this question of deoribels
12
and noise and the perception of noise by listeners . What
13
is the level of noise on a public street say like Pearl
14 street out here?
15
A. It'll run close to 75-70, three-way traffic.
16 At what distance?
17 A. 15 meters .
18
And a meter is about 39 inches.
19
A. About a yard.
20
So that would be 15 or 18 yards away.
21
A. Right off the grass you might say.
22 Now, how about these people who live on the
23 freeway, these big diesel trucks that go by there? By the
24
way, what would be the decibels on the freeway:
25 A. From a large truck operating at 15 meters it
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
! I
I
� I4
PAGE 23
i
1 is 90 decibels, heavy, heavy truck.
2 - From what distance?
3 A. 15 meters .
4 Q1• lj meters . That would be about 15 or 16 yards
5 Suppose you were 300-feet away from that diesel?
6 A. It drops off rapidly- 10 decibels per 100 ft.
7 a That would came can dawn then to about 60.
8 A. About 60. That's one of the reasons for get-
9 t ing back off the freeway is the noise. That's one of the
i
10 reasons.
11 a If one were 00-feet away in an airconditioned
i
12 home with windows down and the doors closed, would one be
I
13 able to hear this particular rig operating on this location`
14 A. It would be just about th j level of 4 library..
15 Qa Library.
16 A. Yes„ sir,
17
Q= I thought they maintained real quiet in li-
braries where I used to go to school. Haw about you all?
19 A. 3 decibels.
e is
20r 35 decibels.
I
21 Then one would have no
problem sleeping or
22 living or Ustening to your TV or something like that, would
23 they?
24 A. Shouldn't
25
Q. All right.
I
'i
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
i
i
i
PAGE 24
I f A. The heavy dense growth should muffle any
2 noise that is produced 300 feet away from heavy, dense
3 undergrowth.
4 Just the undergrowth alone?
5 A. Just the undergrowth alone.
6 Are these motors muffled or not?
7 A— The beat mufflers we can buy have been in-
8 stalled on these. I have the word of the owner on this.
9 Now, this isn't just some guess or an opinion
10 of yours. You took a meter. . . .
11 A. Right.
12 Q. . . . .to measure the sound.
13 A. Yes.
14 That's what I told you to do. I wanted facts .
15 1 told you I didn' t want guessing, didn't I?
16 A. That's right.
17 n Now, bow about the smoke coming from it? Were
18 there big clouds of smoke polluting the air where this rig
19 was operating or not?
20 A. No, sir, no smoke.
21 q. No smoke .
22 A. No dust- no smoke.
23 No dust and no smoke. Do you have any reason
24 to believe there would be any dust or smoke from this
25 drilling rig being located on this 3.66-Acre tract of land?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 25
A. I do not.
2
Operating day and night?
3
A. Right.
4 Have you had some experience with living close
5 to where they drilled an oil well?
6
A. 250 feet; yes, air.
7 250 feet. Where were you living at the time
8 they drilled this oil well?
9 A. 915 East Lavaca street in Beaumont.
10 Q, That 's right across the street from Lamar
11
University, isn't it?
12 A. Yes, air.
13 Where did they drill that well, Doctor9
14 On the Campus.
15 On the Campus. Was that well drilled right
16 where McDonald Gym is now located?
17 A. That is approximately the spot.
You were a professor at the university at that
19
time.
20
A. Yes, air.
21
And bow far was that well being drilled from
22 Dr. John Gray's home west of there, the President's home,
23
I mean where Dr. John Gray actually lived tbere9.
24
About 200 feet about 150 to 200 feet I would
25 judge.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 26
And how far was that well being drilled from
10 2
the President's home of Lamar University at the time?
3 A. About the same distance.
4 I-About the same distance.
5 Now, was there any disturbance of the people
6 out there when they drilled that well?
7 A. Not especially. We didn't have aircondition-
8 ers .
9
You didn't have airconditioners.
0 10 A. No. Wekad open windows.
11
Open windows.
12
A. That's right. We had attic fans.
13
You had attic fans.
14
A. Right.
15 1 bet those attic fans made almost as much
16 noise as the rig, didn't they?
17 A. That's right.
18 QO. But anyway they were actually drilling on the
19 University property, where the McDonald Gym is now or there
20 a bouts.
21
A. Just about.
22
And the neighbors were they disappointed in
23
what happened out there, Doctor?
24
A� We hoped they would get oil.
C- 25 Q-. They didn't get oil.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 27
A. They didn't get oil.
2
And that was the only real disappointment
3
that you all had, wasn't it?
4
True.
5
And you didn't have any thick trees or growth
6 or underbrush separating you all from the rig and you did
7 1
not have airconditiofted homes at that time and you made it
8 all right and lived to testify today.
9
A. Sure did.
10
Now, can you tell us something about the deci-
bels of noise produced by one of these saws that's out
12 there right where this very location is,, in that vicinity?
13
There is construction going on out there and they have bull
14 dozers operating out there, do they not?
15
A. Yes, sir.
16 And they have saws working.
17 A. Yes .
What are the decibels turned up by those saws
19
as they hum out there?
20
A. Sustained noise on those will be around 90 to
21
95 decibels .
22
Q. What distance?
23 A. Within five meters of the saw where one is
24 building a house and sawing lumber. It's right at the
25 point where it's annoying.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE
How about the bulldozers operating out there
clearing those roadways and laying down roads?
3
A. Well, they are--I would say it is about the
4
same as freeway traffic; about 90 decibels, something like
5 heavy-truck traffic, similar to that
6
They are I believe D-8, D-9. I don't know. f.
7
didn't look at the power on those machines but they have
8
a blade on them using them for earth moving, diesels.
9
Those pieces of equipment are out there opera- �
0� 10 ting.
11 A. Yes.
12
And have been for a long time expanding that
13 addition.
14 A. Right.
15
And they are clearing more roads and there are
16 houses being built right now.
17
A. Right.
18
And you went out there and viewed them,?
19 A. I did.
20 Q, And you took some pictures of the bulldozers
21 out there operating.
22
A.
Yea, air.
23
Q, Now that bulldozer that was operating out
24 there, was it in compliance with the Environmental law?
25 No, sir.
EDNA LABOvE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 29
What was comingfrom that bulldozer operating
2 out there?
3
A. It had black smoke emission.
4 Did you see any smoke coming from this Big
5 Six Drilling Rig No. 7 when you saw it operating?
6
A. No, air.
7
Q1_ And you have pictures of this bulldozer with
8 the black smoke coming from it, do you not?
9 A. Yes, air.
10 Q1. How about the decibels from a motorbike as
11
they rev them up and go by your house; what sort of sound
12 do you get on your porch say or in your house?
13 A. I judge you would get from about 75 to 90
14 decibels depending on where you are located; whether you
15 are riding it or whether you are adjacent to the machine.
16
And it's in the -- some of the larger bikes
17 will go up to a 100 decibels. And the way they have them
18
muffled they may even go over that. If they don't have
19
mufflers on those bikes, these large Harley-Davidson would
20
go way over a 100 decibels. And they get to be ear-split-
21 ting as you well know.
22 Q. Now, Doctor, did you make some investigation
23 with reference to the weight of this rig as it would be
24 brought in on the streets? Did you get the weights on this
25 rig and the truck?
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 30
A. Yes . I have all these weights from the public
.2 scales given to--as they were given to Mr. Lucas and be
3 gave them to me. And I made some calculations on these.
4 And I believe every piece of equipment has its
5 weight here in this report. I believe you have a copy of
6 this. And we have each machine with each motor and with
7
each load of pipe, ith each tank, with each-everything
8 as documented here . I believe you will find a weight cer-
9 tificate on each one of these as Phillip—
10 Q_ All right. Now--
11 A. . . . .gave them to me .
12
Q, How much weight per square inch--well, wait
13 a minute.
14 This rig is on a moveable frame, is it not?
15
A. Yes .
16
Q, A motor frame.
17
A. It Is on a frame much like a truck.
18
They will just drive the thing in there and
19
set up the rig right there from the motor frame itself.
20
A. It's a -- right.
21
Now, you say it was near Silsbee when you saw
22 it. Could it have gotten to that location without going
23 over the highway to get there?
24
A. No, air.
25 And, when it's moved, it will be moved over
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
i
PAGE 3
i
1 the highway.
i
3 Q. And could it be moved into this location with-
4 out damage to these streets?
5 A. 'des, sir.
i
6 Is there any question in your mind about that
I 7 whatsoever?
8 A. None.
I
9 Have much weight will this rig and these pieces
i
I 10 of equipment as they come in there on trucks, how much
11 weight psi will they put can the surface of the concrete
12 streets?
13 A. I estimate by calculation and depending on
14 the amount of air in the tires at the time it's brought in,
15 between 400 and 1,000 psi.
16 We have a factor which according to concrete
17 strength would be 3,000 psi. So we have quite a safety
18 factor built into this thing.
19 And if you calculate this on s load. actual
20 strength of 6,,000 lbs . we still have maybe a little better
21 factor here...
22 But as far as the breaking strength of con-
23 crete we are still safe by a factor of anywhere franthree
24 to seven units. So we have plenty of strength in the
25 streets. We have plenty of strength in the concrete.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
I
I
I
1
PAGE 32
And this is documented here at the City and
2 the people who test the sheets ® From these figures and
3
from the weight of this equipment, it is public evidence
4 as to the amount of poundage he will have on the streets
5
and the load-bearing capacity of the street.
And I think this is for the Council's consid-
7 eration in this document here, too. They can look it over.
8
They are welcome to see your Environmental
9
Impact Study.
10
A. They certainly are .
We will introduce one Just as well to do it
12 right now. We introduce Dr. Bads' Environmental Study.
13
(Whereupon, at this time, Environmental Impact
14 Studay was marked for identification as Applicant Exhibit
15
# 5_ and accompanies this record at the close hereof. )
16 BY MR. ADAM:
17 Q. Now, Doc tor, of this rig is moved in, you
18 say there will be no damage or barm to the roads or the
19
streets out there in this Addition in the City of Beaumont
20 by the moving of it
21 A. That's right.
22
Now, after it is moved in, will there be met-
23 hods of containing the drilled mud they call it as the drib-
24
ling rig ,goes down' will there be methods to contain that
25
drilled mud?
EDNA LABoVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 33
A. Yes. All of the muds and all of the materi-
2 als coming in and used in the well coming out of the
3 hole and going into the hole will be in tanks. And it
4 will be well down around all of the. surfaces will not be
5 allowed to drain off into the ditches.
6 And we will look in on this daily to see that
7 this is carried out as part of our agreement. And we will
8 oversee this as professionals to see that this is carried
9 on In a professional-like clean manner.; not scattering this
10 material around and becoming polluted as far as water, air,
11 noise, solid waste, the whole bit.
12 1 ask you, Doctor, If you would monitor this
13
as Environmental Specialist of this area. Do you monitor
14 this operation to see there is no Environmental disturbance
15
with reference to smoke or noise or mud or mud or things
16 like that?
17
A. I will.
18
And, as a Registered Environmentalist, you are
19 obligated to do that, are you not?
20
A. Right.
21
MR. ADAM, I believe that's all. Thank you.
22
Wait a minute. I would like himto show these pictures if
Ili 23 you don' t mind.
24 If you will turn off the main lights, I would
25
Like for the Council to see about four pictures.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE
34
(By Mr. Adams) Doctor, would you explain
2
the pictures as they appear on the screen.
3
A. This is the entryway off of Stacewood Drive
4
into the property itself that is the 3.66 Acres of the dril
5
ling site . This is the entryway off of Stacewood Drive .
6
And the principals own this property and they will not
7
tear up other people's property getting in. This entryway
8
is on their own site.
9
This is the land, you are looking perpendicu-
10
lar to it, the 60-ft. entryway there. And these are the
houses: one adjacent to the property and the houses across
12
the street from Stacewood Drive .
13
Next picture:- This is the dense undergrowth
14 that you see in this area . And walking back about 25 or
15
30 feet into this property is this thick, dense underbrush
16
of all vanities. And it's very thick, like a jungle. With
1 17
the color wide open that's all the color I could get into
18
it.
19
Next film:- This is standing looking up at
20
the place. And I was standing trying to see through the
21
dense upper levels of the oak and some pine.
22
Next picture : - This is looking out into the
23
same thing. You see that this is very densely populated.
24
And 300 feet back in there it is impossible to see. You
25 have to clear this, a little roadway to get into the property
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 35
1 to the back side of this 3.66 Acres.
2 Next picture:- And that's the little black
3 cloud there above the tractor that is violating Regulation
4 2, smoke in particular of the Texas Air Control Board.
5 How far is that from the location itself?
6 A. This is north of the location. You are looking
7 directly into the other side of it, the 3.66 Acres.
8 MR. ADAMS: All right. I believe that's all.
9 Thank you. Shut it off.
10 MR. GREIG: Your Honor, to hold the continuity,,
11 may we ask Dr. Eads a few questions relating to the En-
12 vironmental Agency?
13 MR. ADAMS: It's all right with us.
14 MAYOR: All right, sir.
15 MR. GREIG: My name is Carl Greig. And I live
16 at 6765 Knollwood.
17 EXAMINATION OF DR. EADS
18 BY MR. GREIG:
19 You said the drilling rig where you made the
20 sound measurement the decibel rating at 300 feet was 60
21 to 65. Is that correct?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 You are familiar, I am sure, with OSHA, the Oc-
24 cupational Safety and Health Administration.
25 A. I am.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 36
For those of you who are not, this is a federal
2 agency which passes regulations regarding to--relating to
II
3 workers' safety.
4
Do you know what the OSHA regulation is for noise 'I,
5 level?
6 A. I do.
7
Q. You are the witness. Tell us .
A. 0. K. OSHA. will allow 90 decibels for eight hours.
9 Could you extrapolate that to 24 hours?
10 A. But we are not---in other words, in coming on
down, as it gets to 60 decibels and 70 decibels, this is
12 graduated in hours according to OSITIA.
13 But,, in other words, we are not dealing--
14
That is it for 60 hours? This will be operating
15 around the clock in other words as I understand it.
16 A. 6o?
17 Or 60 decibels.
18
A. For 60 decibels I understand there is no restric-
19
Lion on 60 decibels. That's nominal. That is what you
20 would expect from street noise. There is no restriction on
21 this .
22 Q. 1 just point out. I don't have those figures.
23 All I am aware of is the 90-decibel rating. And there is
II 24 talk of reducing that to 85 for an 8-hr. period. And these
25
people will be exposed to it 24 hours a day. You talk about
EDNA LAE30VE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 37
the undergrowth and being indoors but I think we ought to
2
keep that in mind.
3 A. Let me caution You. Now, 90 decibels is measured
4 at very close to the rig site itself, at less than--
5
My only point is--
6
A. . . . .a 100 feet.
7
. . . .that the OSHA regulation is independent of
8 distance. It 's just an average of 90 decibels.
9 And I don't know whether your measurements in-
10
10 eluded the clanging of drilling pipes or whether it was--
A. It was the noisiest noise I could hear.
12 The point is 60 or 65 is below 90, but the 90
13 is based on eight hours. And we live out there 24 hours a
14 day.
15
Well, you won't be suffering that though.
16 Q. 65?
17 A. 65 is what we have in this room about 45 to
19
I thought you said it was 65 at 300 feet.
20 AP Outside an the street level it' s about 65.
21
Q. Not too many of us like to live by the side of
22 a street. There is one other question I have. There are a
23 number of questions related.
24 There is a well site I guess west of the newest
25 street in Dowlen West. And there is a pretty fair strip of
EDNA LABovE
COURT REPORTER
II
PAGE 38
land maybe a 100 yards wide that extends back to Stacewood
2 where there are no trees.
3 And, if you drive along Dowlen Road toward Park-
4 dale Mall, there are a number of well sites in that area.
5 If you will notice that, there are a number of dead trees
6 around each of these sites.
7 How can we be sure that this won 't happen here?
8 A Well, you have your--you are bound by every law
9 in the country. And one of the things that you can do is
10
have the laws enforced that are on the books.
11 Q. These sites were bound by the same law, were they
12 not?
13 A. As of that 1965-1972 Act, no. These were bound
14 by certain laws worked up by the Railroad Commission on
15 the dumping of salt water. A lot of this damage was done
16 a long time before the present EPA was in effect. Now,
17 accidents do happen.
18 o Yes .
19 A. But at the peril of the man doing it. He is
20 nearly automatically out of business. The fine is so severe!
21 that he is cautious not to use any indiscreet method.
22 At $10,000.00 a day or $20,000.00 a day, whatever
23 the EPA Administrator would care to give, it seems to be
24 whatever the traffic needs to bear,
25 That 's what happens if something like this happens.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
it
PAGE 39
I If a spill occurs, it is very, very expensive.
2 MR. GREIG.- Thank you.
3 MR. HOPKINS: Your Honor, may I say a word? My
4 name is Richard Hopkins. I live at 930 Norwood in Dowlen
5 West.
6 As far as dead trees go, somebody told me that
7 up here at the corner of Madrid and Stacewood they had
81 counted 20 dead trees and no where near an oil well.
9 As far as noise goes, that 90 decibels the wit-
10 ness mentioned there on making the trip. Those trips don't
11 last long. And that's if you're right there at the rig
12 floor,, because I've been around too many rigs to know
13 otherwise.
14 The rig when it is operating just the drilling
15 itself will make fewer decibels than that.
lo. 16 DR. BADS: Yes. You are speaking for the well,
17 are you not?
MR. HOPKINS: Yes.
19 DR. FADS: Well., I want to be careful.
20 MR. HOPKINS: The idea this noise is going to
21 bother anybody is highly overrated in my opinion.
22 DR. EA DS- I agree.
23 R. HOPKINS.- And so I would like the people to
24 understand when you are talking about 90 decibels right
25 at the rig during the trip, that 's not 24 hours a day.
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
PAGE 4o
That is just a few hours at a time. Thank you.
2
MR. ADAMS: If there are no further questions,
3 Doctor, you may have a seat over there. And I'll--
4 DR. EADS: Thank you.
5 MRS. KHOURY: May I ask one question_, Mayor Rit-
6 ter?
7 My name is Pat Khoury. I live at 845 Stacewood
8 Drive. There is some confusion in my mind. I thought
9 this was a public hearing for people to come and hear the
10 evidence and express their opinion.
11 And, although I am sure we are are all going to
12 have a chance to express an opinion, I would only like to
13 satisfy myself in that because it is a public hearing,
14 we,, as a community., have not brought a lawyer to, in a
15 sense, represent us as equally and as well as Mr. Adams
16 is representing his case.
17
I would like to know now.- Does this mean this is
18
our day in court for the beginning and end of justice?
19 Is this the court decision or is there any recourse to us
20 after this.
21 1 must say I give Mr. Adams and Lucas & Company
22 a great deal of credit for knowing the law, and I will
23 quote "pulling a fast one", because this was only supposed
24 to be a public hearing.
25 What I'd like to knov is, how do we have our day
EDNA LABOVE
COURT REPORTER
MR. ADAMS: Attached to these papers which I have is the offical receipt of the
City of Beaumont showing Lucas & Company paid the $300. 00 fee, June the 7th, and
filed this Application for Permit together with the insurance certificate show-
ing the requisite amount of insurance coverage as required by the Drilling Per-
mit ordinance; together with the Application for the Permit to Drill the well .
And attached thereto is an exhibit showing the location. And we will have big-
ger exhibits on the board to demonstrate to the Council .
We will want this to stay with the Court Reporter until we can substitute a
copy.
Then we have the bond in accordance with the Drill Permit Ordinance of $25, 000,
which we will introduce here.
That constitutes at this time all the preliminary, and what we consider to be
jurisdictional exhibits necessary for this Council to have actual legal juris-
diction.
Now, if the Council would permit, I would like to call a very distinguished geo-
logist, who will give us some idea about whether this is just a speculative
wild-cat well to be drilled or whether it is something that is a first-class
prime prospect for the production of oil and gas. And that "s Dr. C. B. Claypool.
Doctor, would you take this chair, please.
(Dr. C. B. Claypool called in behalf of the Applicant, testified as follows : )
EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS:
Q. You are Dr. C. B. Claypool?
A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, how long have you been a professional geologist?
A. Since 1929.
Q. Do you have any degrees evidencing study in the field of geology?
A. I have a Ph.D. , University of Illinois, 1933 .
Q. Doctor of Philosophy degree in Geology?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Thereafter you practices where?
A. I practiced -- after the degree?
Q. Yes.
A. I practiced first with the Illinois Geological Survey. And then follow-
ing that the U. S. Geological Survey Topographical Division.
I came to Texas from Illinois in 1934, the fall, and entered into the field of
Geophysics and worked for the independent Exploration Company for a year-and-a-
half. They were situated in Houston,
In February, 1946, 1 became Gulf Coast Division Geologist for the Sun Oil Co.
And I was with them for a period of 11 years, resigning in February, 1947 , to
conduct a private consulting practice.
Q. And since 1947 you have been a private practicing Geologist in the con-
sulting field since 1947 .
A. That is correct.
Q. Actually you have been working in the field of Geology since about 1927 ,
have you not?
-3- June 20, 1974
A. That is correct. I went to the University of Illinois with the thought
of being a Petroleum Geologist.
Q. So, you have been practicing actually about 47 years.
A. That is correct. Yes.
Q. I Know this sometimes gives a man a little feeling of embarrassment, but
we want to try to demonstrate your ability, Doctor, and I will ask you it whe-
ther or not since you have been an independent Geologist in 1947 down to date,
you have been the moving and prime factor in studying Geology and locating what
has turned out to be oil fields or gas fields in this area?
A. That would be correct, yes .
Q. How many oil or gas fields in Jefferson County alone have you been one of
the prime movers, developers and discoverers of?
A. over 20, sir.
Q. over 20.
A. Yes.
Q. As such, of course, that is just Jefferson County.
A. That is correct.
Q. That doesn't include areas out of this county. And you are today a prac-
ticing Geologist Consultant.
A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, have you had occasion in this energy crisis - and by the way is
this energy crisis that we read about, is it a simulated thingl oras a man in
this field, can you tell us whether it's real or simulated?
A. I would prefer to say very definitely and positively it is very read.
Q. An oil reservoir or gas reservoir is like any other reservoir, when you
pump all the oil and gas out, it is then without any hydrocarbons. Is that
correct?
A. Well, essentially so. There might be a secondary recovery on occasion
that we recover additional amounts. But in normal Gulf-coast areas primary
recovery accounts for almost the entirety.
Q. And, therefore, if there is to be sufficient energy to operate this coun-
try, there needs to be more discovery of oil and gas and hydrocarbons as they
call it.
A. I feel it 's very, very necessary,
Q. Now, have you made a study of the proposed Drill site for which Lucas &
Company has made Application, so that you can tell us something about the geo-
logy of that particular location?
A. Yes.
Q. I will give you this pointer if you happen to need it. I might try to
bring this thing up a little closer (Exhibiting large map) . Now, Doctor, this
location is in what we know as H. Williams Abstract 56 League in Jefferson
County, is it not?
A. Yes.
Q. Right there. It's a little square. I see on this map a dark line right
here North of the location and another dark line farther North of the location.
-4- June 20, 1974
A. That is the locale of two significant faults in the area at the horizon of
the first marginal line of sand which is mid-Obligocent in age.
Q. When we speak of a "fault" in order to find this oil and gas, it has to
accumulate some place. And in the oil and gas fields, we speak of traps, do we
not, or maybe a dome like Spindletop.
A. Yes.
Q. But elsewhere sometimes we refer to is as a trap. And that trap is cre
ated when the land or surface is level. And then something occurs and the lower
side breaks off leaving a bank. And then the hydrocarbons drift to and gather
against that bank. And that*s called the trap. Is that correct or not?
A. That is correct; in a generalized way, that's true. A fault is any dis-
continuity of formation where there has been appreciable movement in relation
of one side to the other.
Q. Can you point out on this map -- and by the way who prepared that? Did
you prepare that or was it prepared—
A. The initial work was mine, yes.
Q. That's the geological study that was made.
A. Yes, that's true.
Q. And you say that this black line right here that I 'm pointing to on this
map is a fault line,
A. It' s a fault line at this particular horizon, Bearing in mind that lower
horizons would successfully translate and move,
Q. Have wells been drilled in that particular area which has aided you in
your study to determine where this particular field might be, , . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .in reference to this matter?
A. Very much so. The Normandy Putnam for example,
Q. This is a small amount. Let"s take a larger one.
A. it would be this well right here (indicating) ,
Q. That was called the Normandy Putnam.
A. Normandy Oil Company on the Putnam acreage, yes.
Q. And it was drilled when?
A. Oh, roughly "37 .
Q. And have you studied the geology from that well?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there some other wells drilled?
A. Yes, Two rather significant wells, one by Glenn McCarthy on the Langham
property which is this well right here for example (indicating) . And this one
here on the Weinbaum property. And then we have a number of edge wells. What
we might term edge wells of the West Beaumont Field as outlined.
Q. From the study of the geology of those wells, can you tell that there was
a fault in this area?
-5- June 20, 1974
A. The fault is indicated by the structural positions of these wells in re-
lation to the field proper in relation to other wells'. For example, this large
Smith well to the southwest and wells further southward) so that it appears
that we are dealing with a small down-fallen segment or block which is actually
a portion of the greater West Beaumont feature, which I consider a salt anti-
cline.
When I say salt anticline, we 're dealing with a deep salt, not a salt that prob-
ably will ever be found on account of depth,- but, nevertheless, the appearance
of it indicated that it is salt-motivated.
And it's a structure that proceeds southward for example into the Amelia field,
and northward through what we term as Rosedale, which is this area here; and
thence northeastward into what is known as Cook's Lake area,
It' s a very prominent geological feature and long recognized.
Q. Now, will you tell the Council why this particular well is requested to
be drilled at the particular location?
A. I am very strongly of the opinion that the Normandy Putnam which had very
significant showing in the first marginal line of sand and a drill,sand test at
that point which failed could be catching so to speak; which, in our terminol-
ogy is have oil or gas thereon.
And one or two other sands which appear suspicious on the log itself. Plus the
fact that I feel very confident of this particular fault here; the relation of
these two wells for example, and the down-drop or lower structural position in
realtion to the field itself .
Q. Now, this particular drill site is 3 .66 Acres, You know where it is, of
course.
A. Yes.
Q. And you have designated that as the particular place, . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .where the well ought to be drilled.
A. Yes. It is relatively favorable we will say,
Q. And do you class this as a wild-cat or do you class it as a prime firstr
class prospect for success?
A. I would class it as a prime first-class prospect for success on the order
of 50%.
Q. You say you think it's on a 508-50 basis, That 's pretty high.
A. That is good in our business.
Q. Now, Doctor, I believe you originally took those leases in your name.
A. That's right.
Q. And you had somebody else get them in your name,
A. No. I took them in my name. The Howth Estate itself was brought to me
by a very close friend: a fellow worker, a fellow-geologist, Carl VanWormer.
And dueto our long friendship he came to me essentially first to get my opin-
ion. And I liked the area. Ihave liked the area for quite some time. So, it
was a meeting of the mind so to speak. From there we expanded the lease block.
Q. And took in the leases on the mineral estates of the various owners.
-6- June 20, 1974
A. That is correct.
Q. There are a number of local residents who own minerals under these leases,
are there not?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, the people who are going to finance this drilling operation, are they
Deople from away, afar off in California or New York or where are they from,
Doctor?
A. Well, I am one of them and you know where I live,
Q. You live here in Beaumont.
A. Yes, I 've lived here since the fall of 135.
Q. This will be financed actually by you and by Lucas & Company.
A. Mr. Lucas who is a Beaumont resident or not today he is a Houston resi-
dent. He was born here.
Q. And reared here.
A. Tutored here so to speak,
Q. You all are committing yourselves to large sums of money for this explora-
tion project.
A. At the moment Mr. Lucas and myself are the sole owners of the lease.
MR. ADAMS: I believe that 's all, If Council would have questions, we would
be glad to have the Doctor answer them, All right, Thank you, Doctor. You
may have a seat over there,
MR. WILLIAMS : I have one question, Mr. Attorney,
MR. ADAMS: All right
MR. WILLIAMS: You mentioned your chances of 50--50 as being relatively high in
the oil field business. In relation to what so that I might have a better grasp
to what you mean,
MR. ADAMS: It's my understanding in the slight experience I've had, if you get
one well out of 10 or 20, you 're lucky. What 's the score, Doctor?
DR. CLAYPOOL: Perennial Estimate has been about one out of nine. However, re-
cently, that looks about like one out of 11. We have been very fortunate in our
own operations and we have approximated one out of five.
MR. ADAMS: You can understand a man who has found 21 oil fields in Jefferson
County is a pretty good guesser.
Dr. Eads, would you take the chair, please, sir.
(Dr. E. A. Eads called as a witness in behalf of the Applicant, testified as
follows:
(EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS : )
Q. You are Dr. E. A. Eads.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where do you live, Dr. Eads?
A. 915 East Lavaca, Beaumont, Texas.
-7- June 20, 1974
Q. You are a Doctor of what?
A. Professor of Chemistry. Doctor of Philosophy.
Q. And you have a Doctor's degree in Chemistry?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have been teaching at Lamar University how long?
A. 28 years. It will soon be 28 .
Q. Have you done any Environmental work, Doctor?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you or not a Registered Licensed Environmentalist?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Registered by the State,
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And authorized to practice that field of endeavor.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you made one or many environmental studies?
A. Yes, I've made several.
Q. Did I request that you make an Environmental Study on this drill site in
the H. Williams Survey that is under discussion here today?
A. Yes, sir, you did.
Q. Did you make such Environmental Impact Study?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now, Doctor, subsequent testomony will show. And I think this big map has
on it that this drill site is located right here (indicating) which is 1940 feet
west of Lucas Drive. I mean not Lucas, but Dowling Road. And it comprises a
tract of land of 4.66 Acres, Have you been out there on this ground?
A. Yes, sir, I have.
Q. Would you describe to the Council the type of flora and gatm4, and growth
and trees and shrubs and brush and that sort of thing on this pies of property.
A. Yes, sir. It' s very thick; mostly hardwoodl a brushy area and practi-
cally impenetrable without hacking out some shrubbery and some underbrush. It 's
quite dense.
Q. Now, by measurement we are showing here the location of this well site to
the nearest property line is 300 feet east and to the nearest property line is
300 feet east and to the nearest property line north is 300 feet.
Are you aware that that well is proposed to be located at that juncture right
there on this tract of land which is on the southwest corner of the 3 .66 Acres,
A. Yes.
Q. Are you aware of it?
A. Right.
-8- June 20, 1974
Q. Now, were you given information with reference to the kind of drilling rig
that would be used. . . .
A. Yes.
Q. . . . .to drill this well?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you told it was a particular-number rig of a particular company?
A. Yes.
Q. Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7 .
A. Big Six Drilling and Rig No. 7, yes, sir.
Q. Were you told where that rig was in actual operation so you could go look
at it?
A. It was nine miles north of Silsbee.
Q. At the time you saw it.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you identified it. Did they have any signs out there, Big Six Drilling
Rig No. 7?
A. Yes. Yes, on the road turnoff as you go into the property there on the
Weaver property.
Q. So that this Council will have an opportunity to evaluate the question of
noise; did you have a noise meter with you or a meter of some kind to monitor
the noise or the sound at certain distances from this rig as it is preceived and
received by the listener?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you measure it at a distance of a 100 feet from the rig?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What kind of rig is this, a steam rig or a diesel rig?
A. A diesel driven rig.
Q. And at 100 feet what was the register of the sound volume?
A. There was no noise above 90 decibels and the average noise about 75 deci-
bels.
Q. No noise from this drilling rig above decibels and generally about 75.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you measure it at 150 or 200 feet?
A. I measured it on down to -- I approximated 300 feet.
Q. At 200 feet what was the decibels?
A. It dropped off to 80,82, 83 decibels. No noise above that. Average down
around 65 to 70 decibels.
Q. 300 feet away from this drilling rig what was the measurement of the sound?
-9- June, 20, 11,9"i4
A. 60 and 65 decibels.
Q. We have talked about 60 and 65 decibels. And we have shown here that this
well location will be 60 feet from the nearest property line. Tell us about
what a decibel is, Doctor.
A. A decibel is the amount of noise that it takes to make an audible sound;
just simply that. It is the amount of pressure it takes to make it in other
lords to where one can hear it, where the average person can hear it.
Q. You made a study on this question of decibels and noise and the perception
of noise by listeners. What is the level of noise on a public street say like
Pearl Street out here?
A. It'll run close to 7570, three way traffic ,
Q. At what distance?
A. 15 meters.
Q. And a meter is about 39 inches.
A. About a yard.
Q. So that would be 15 or 18 yards away.
A. Right off the grass you might say.
Q. Now, how about these people who live on the freeway, these big diesel
trucks that go by there? By the way, what would be the decibels on the freeway?
A. From a large truck operating at 15 meters it it 90 decibels, heavy, heavy
truck.
Q. From what distance?
A. 15 meters.
Q. 15 meters. That would be about 15 or 16 yards; Suppose you were 300-feet
away from that diesel?
A. It drops off rapidly; 10 decibels per 100 ft,
Q. That would come on down then to about 60.
A. About 60. That�s one of the reasons for getting back off the freeway is
the noise. That's one of the reasons.
Q. If one were 300 feet away in an airconditioned home with windows down and
the doors closed, would one be able to hear this particular rig operating on
this location?
A. It would be just about the level of a library.
Q. Library.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I thought they maintained real quiet in libraries where I used to go to
school. How about you all?
A. 35 decibels.
Q. 35 decibels. Then one would have no problem sleeping or living or listen-
ing to your TV or something like that, would they?
A. Shouldn't.
-10- June 20, 1974